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At the very least a middle class person should own their own business and be financially independent.
Well, certainly that's not true. Being financially independent or a business owner are not what constitutes middle class. You can be an employee and be considered middle class - you just have to be at a certain income level.
Quote:
Originally Posted by samyn on the green
The Hamptons are nothing like Manhattan or Brooklyn yet loved by all.
Where do you get these ideas?? Lots of New Yorkers hate the Hamptons (and the people who think they're cool for going there). Ick.
The fact is that there are lots of New Yorkers who feel it's either Manhattan or nothing, then you have the ones that feel that way about Brooklyn. The general attitude is something like, anyone in the other boroughs are there because they couldn't get into Manhattan (#1) or a good part of Brooklyn (#2). But at least if you live in Queens or the Bronx, it's still much more convenient for commuting and having a social life than S.I.
Really, one of the many reasons New Yorkers in the other boroughs avoided S.I. because of the putrid smell coming from the Fresh Kills Landfill, a dump comprised mostly from NYC's household waste that covered over 2000 acres and was visible from space. It opened in 1947 and was shut down in 2001. That land was originally tidal marshes and farmland, and the city wants to turn it into a park (they will surely have to bury everything under something thick, and monitor chemicals). I hated driving anywhere near it, the smell was unbelievably disgusting.
So, add that to the fact that commuting back and forth from S.I. is a time-consuming pain in the butt for the majority of New Yorkers who don't have cars (seriously - I've worked with S.I.'ers whose commutes into midtown were 2 hours each way), and the old prejudice against Italians (who are/were numerous there) and the working class population whose very distinct accent makes them sound a bit dumb, and the limited cultural offerings outside of Snug Harbor and Historic Richmond Town, it should be fairly easy to see why New Yorkers in the other boroughs just don't want to bother themselves with S.I. unless they have to. I have often joked that there's "no good reason to go there."
I must say, though, that there was always a very wealthy population there (Todt Hill). I mean, hey, Cornelius Vanderbilt lived there and began his empire with a ferry between S.I. and Manhattan. As long as I've lived in NYC, it just always seemed like there was a very clearly delineated division between the uber-wealthy that lived in their enclave and the rest of Staten Island with their pizza parlors, cheesy Christmas decorations, and smelly landfill.
However, things are changing - there is a Film Festival there regularly now, the artist colony is growing due to artists getting priced out of Williamsburg, and in recent years they established the Staten Island Yankees (Minor League) and gave them their own ballpark. People are actually going to S.I. just to see a baseball game.
I very seldom go to S.I., and only when necessary (events that I can't get out of, like a wedding or a party), but I'll still avoid it 'til I know it doesn't stink anymore.
The landfill that used to take all the waste from the other boroughs has been closed for several years. It does not smell anymore. In a way, I am glad that many ignorant people feel this way, because the less, people choose to come here, the less trees they will chop to build their McMansions, the less cars, pollution, and crowding we will have. We are almost 500,000 people, we do not need anymore!!!!!!!!!No great loss!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Samyn,
I agree with you. I think the "love to hate Staten Island" mentality of many New Yorkers is a reflection of people's fear of class slippage. In America there is an ideal of everyone being equal, i.e., democracy = equality. However, we are by no means a classless society. So there is always a tension between the ideal of accepting everyone as an equal and the natural tendency to aspire to greater things. In addition, we are a very socially fluid society, so natural competition results in an endless striving to climb the social ladder and improve one's status. Consequently, anything that reminds one of a level that they've managed to raise themselves up from induces fears of slipping back.
I think that for upper middle whites, there's no identification with the lifestyle of working class or poor blacks and Hispanics. So they're free to feel compassion and generosity toward them. Whereas working class whites, poor whites, or whites that are not yet assimilated into the greater American culture, i.e., WASP (exclusive educations/white collar jobs/financial security/genteel pursuits) are too similar to them. They represent a regression or a nightmare. Whites who've "made it" want to distance themselves from these folks as much as possible. Thus the negative impressions and sentiments about Staten Island. This attitude then infiltrates the general NY attitude about Staten Island.
Marie1249: Your post is about the only one that makes any sense. I have given you reps.
The landfill that used to take all the waste from the other boroughs has been closed for several years.
Yes, I already mentioned that - it was shut down in 2001.
Quote:
It does not smell anymore. In a way, I am glad that many ignorant people feel this way, because the less, people choose to come here, the less trees they will chop to build their McMansions, the less cars, pollution, and crowding we will have. We are almost 500,000 people, we do not need anymore!!!!!!!!!No great loss!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I hope you're not calling me ignorant (unaware). I know that the smell has subsided, and didn't notice any odors on a recent excursion out there, but I just wonder how they contained it and if the landfill doesn't have its moments of lingering stench being carried on the wind. There still needs to be careful monitoring of the chemicals leaching into the ground and water - the landfill is on a major flight path for migratory birds, too.
Anyway, I was just offering another reason to the OP why S.I. has gotten such short shrift over the years. I've been to a wedding at a country club somewhere over there and it was lovely. But you must realize that 50+ years of having a reputation for smelling bad and being full of cheesy people is difficult to turn around -- I know, I grew up in NJ -- and S.I. just isn't easy to get to. Even just riding back and forth on the Ferry can be tiring. That's why I, and many NYers, don't go to S.I. without good reason. My post was just meant to offer some insight to the OP who doesn't know anything about the place, not to put S.I. down.
Are there any issues there with racist people? I find it kind odd that over 70% of Staten Island in white while all the other boroughs are very diverse. Or is that just a coincidence.
I'm the last one to defend Staten Island (punks, traffic, etc) but what's wrong with being 70% white?
Nothing, I am asking if the reason why it is is bad. Like are the locals not welcoming to minorities, discrimination by landlords, racial profiling by police, or just simply a coincidence? It's just odd that the rest of the city is extremely mixed without a true majority race, but yet Staten Island has one race that is over 70% of the population.
Well, certainly that's not true. Being financially independent or a business owner are not what constitutes middle class. You can be an employee and be considered middle class - you just have to be at a certain income level.
Where do you get these ideas?? Lots of New Yorkers hate the Hamptons (and the people who think they're cool for going there). Ick.
The fact is that there are lots of New Yorkers who feel it's either Manhattan or nothing, then you have the ones that feel that way about Brooklyn. The general attitude is something like, anyone in the other boroughs are there because they couldn't get into Manhattan (#1) or a good part of Brooklyn (#2). But at least if you live in Queens or the Bronx, it's still much more convenient for commuting and having a social life than S.I.
Brooklyn is overated. Nothing more special or "new york" about than any other borough. I dont want to live there and theres about 4 million that agree.
[quote=citychik;4657298]Yes, I already mentioned that - it was shut down in 2001.I hope you're not calling me ignorant (unaware).
and being full of cheesy people is difficult to turn around. (quote) No, I am not calling you ignorant because, obviously, you are one of the few people that know "something about Staten Island." Although you forgot to mention the history in Tottenville: Alice Austen House, Clay Pit Pond, Sandy Ground Historical Society, Conference House, Chinese Scholar's Garden, Garibaldi-Meucci Museum, Museaum of Tibetan Art, Noble Maritime Collection, Staten Island Botanical Garden, Staten Island Children's Museum, Staten Island Museum, etc,etc. Borough President, James P. Molinaro, has done wonders for this island. We have parks and playgrounds, concerts and events, and soon new energy, with the proposed wind farm, that is going to be erected at the very site of the landfield. We have a new Charleston Shopping Center, and soon the Waterfront Commons will be coming, we have fishing piers, and newly -rebuilt boardwalks. Please go, to www.StatenIslandUSA.com, and see for yourself. No, we do not have our heads in the ground, like most people think. I (broken link) am calling "ignorant" those people that do not know anything about the Island, or have been to one town near the ferry or the bridge, and judge the Island on those merits, only. And about your comment of "cheesy people," even though I am not Italian, I have great respect for the Italian population in this borough, which are great contributors to it, they keep their houses beautiful, are very family oriented, are very clean, and have opened up multitude of restaurants and stores. Every borough is FULL OF CHEESY PEOPLE, so why pigeonhole the Island only? Let's talk about the human garbage in all the other boroughs, as well. Many of us left the " garbagee" behind us from all those other boroughs and came here to start a new productive life. AND we will not allow anyone to bring us down!!!!!!!!!including those people from MAN-HAA-TAAN! that are in their own planet, and think they are UTOPIA/THE SUMMIT, and put everyone else down. ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!!!!!!!!
Brooklyn is overated. Nothing more special or "new york" about than any other borough. I dont want to live there and theres about 4 million that agree.
That's interesting because I always hear about Brooklyn's good neighborhoods being great and hear people put down S.I. and the Bronx.
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