What's wrong with Staten Island?????? (New York, Clay: landlords, income, to live)

[UpsonDowns]

And doesn't the ferry run every half hour or something like that?

[Pivot Point]

Originally Posted by samyn on the green

Staten Island is looked down upon because it has a large working class population. There are many working class whites with thick working class accents, there are many garbage men, pizzeria owners and mechanics among their ranks. It is not a place for transient white collar college educated office workers to fit in.


While you will look racist and uneducated to look down upon lower or working class Blacks or Hispanics it will cost you no diversity points to look down with complete disdain at the working class residents of Staten Island. You have the green light to trash Staten Island and its residents at any time.

Samyn,
I agree with you. I think the "love to hate Staten Island" mentality of many New Yorkers is a reflection of people's fear of class slippage. In America there is an ideal of everyone being equal, i.e., democracy = equality. However, we are by no means a classless society. So there is always a tension between the ideal of accepting everyone as an equal and the natural tendency to aspire to greater things. In addition, we are a very socially fluid society, so natural competition results in an endless striving to climb the social ladder and improve one's status. Consequently, anything that reminds one of a level that they've managed to raise themselves up from induces fears of slipping back.

I think that for upper middle whites, there's no identification with the lifestyle of working class or poor blacks and Hispanics. So they're free to feel compassion and generosity toward them. Whereas working class whites, poor whites, or whites that are not yet assimilated into the greater American culture, i.e., WASP (exclusive educations/white collar jobs/financial security/genteel pursuits) are too similar to them. They represent a regression or a nightmare. Whites who've "made it" want to distance themselves from these folks as much as possible. Thus the negative impressions and sentiments about Staten Island. This attitude then infiltrates the general NY attitude about Staten Island.

[Andysocks]

^^^

I was starting to think you had a point, but then again whites from Ozone Park, Glendale, Levittown, etc make fun of staten Island just as much, so that's definitely not all of it.

[Pivot Point]

That's what I mean about the upper middle's attitude infiltrating the general NY attitude. The Ozone Park, Glendale, Levittown people may be laughing at the Staten Islanders because that's just a NY thing to do. However, people from more middle and upper middle class parts of the city are looking down their noses at them, too. The attitude holds true for all working class white areas. I guess Staten Island is a particular target because it is bigger and more isolated than other places.

[K.O.N.Y]

U mine aswell say "this is why rich white people hate staten island". New yorkers as a whole dont care about the white "working class" people aspect. As a matter of fact most new yorkers i know think of si as rich and suburban. Si is hated ; to make a long story short, because its not relevant to the rest of the city

[RUBIES77]

Originally Posted by Dorian

I never hear anything good about Staten Island, actually I don't hear anything good or bad on this site about Staten Island. I was watching CSI:NY and they were talking about how a long time ago New York and New Jersey had a sailboat race and the winner would acquire Staten Island and the actor said "can we give it back?". So I started to wonder what is wrong with Staten Island. What is it's positives? And what are the negatives? Is it a good or bad place to live and why?

Seventy-Eight percent white, the rest is "Other," median household income is $63,000, versus $49,480 for NY, median house/condo is $434,000, versus $258,900, for NY. VERY, VERY, FAMILY ORIENTED. EXCELLENT Zagat -rated restaurants, a multitude of parks, with greenbelts galore, sits in front of a bay with lots of hills. Has a multitude of EXCELLENT, EXCELLENT areas, with very few "GHETTOES," Excellent private schools. A multitude of NYPD, and NYFD, live here. A low-crime rate, a free ferry from MAN-haa-taan, that is open 24/7, a railroad to take you to the ferry, a multitude of EXPRESS buses directly to MAN-haa-taan, loaded with history and museums. AND VERY, VERY FRIENDLY PEOPLE! Compare these stats with the other boroughs, except MAN-haa-taan,! and draw your own conclusions. WE ARE VERY, VERY, HAPPY HERE!

[samyn on the green]

Thank you for expanding on the point so equivalently. The long ride on the ferry does not help but the class issues are what drives the hate of Staten Island.

Originally Posted by Marie1249

Samyn,
I agree with you. I think the "love to hate Staten Island" mentality of many New Yorkers is a reflection of people's fear of class slippage. In America there is an ideal of everyone being equal, i.e., democracy = equality. However, we are by no means a classless society. So there is always a tension between the ideal of accepting everyone as an equal and the natural tendency to aspire to greater things. In addition, we are a very socially fluid society, so natural competition results in an endless striving to climb the social ladder and improve one's status. Consequently, anything that reminds one of a level that they've managed to raise themselves up from induces fears of slipping back.

I think that for upper middle whites, there's no identification with the lifestyle of working class or poor blacks and Hispanics. So they're free to feel compassion and generosity toward them. Whereas working class whites, poor whites, or whites that are not yet assimilated into the greater American culture, i.e., WASP (exclusive educations/white collar jobs/financial security/genteel pursuits) are too similar to them. They represent a regression or a nightmare. Whites who've "made it" want to distance themselves from these folks as much as possible. Thus the negative impressions and sentiments about Staten Island. This attitude then infiltrates the general NY attitude about Staten Island.

[holden125]

Originally Posted by Marie1249

Samyn,
I agree with you. I think the "love to hate Staten Island" mentality of many New Yorkers is a reflection of people's fear of class slippage. In America there is an ideal of everyone being equal, i.e., democracy = equality. However, we are by no means a classless society. So there is always a tension between the ideal of accepting everyone as an equal and the natural tendency to aspire to greater things. In addition, we are a very socially fluid society, so natural competition results in an endless striving to climb the social ladder and improve one's status. Consequently, anything that reminds one of a level that they've managed to raise themselves up from induces fears of slipping back.

I think that for upper middle whites, there's no identification with the lifestyle of working class or poor blacks and Hispanics. So they're free to feel compassion and generosity toward them. Whereas working class whites, poor whites, or whites that are not yet assimilated into the greater American culture, i.e., WASP (exclusive educations/white collar jobs/financial security/genteel pursuits) are too similar to them. They represent a regression or a nightmare. Whites who've "made it" want to distance themselves from these folks as much as possible. Thus the negative impressions and sentiments about Staten Island. This attitude then infiltrates the general NY attitude about Staten Island.

I agree 100% that we are not a classless society, and that people have been in danger of "slipping back" for some time. I also think the point should be made that the same desire to maintain one's spot and have someone underneath motivates a lot of the white working class antipathy toward non-white people as well.

I just don't agree with this being the case for all, or most, people in terms of their disdain for Staten Island. It is certainly not what inspires me not to like the place. Pretty much my whole family is working class white, no pretensions or wasp accents, and the NY half came out of Bay Ridge. Bay Ridge to me has architecture, character, walkability (and a subway), while SI is just a sprawling suburb, and not that nice of a suburb at that. My problem with SI is not that it represents the "old neighborhood" and I want to feel I've arrived and left that behind, my problem is that it's the same kind of blah that people left the real old neighborhood, the one in Brooklyn, for. I think the move toward the suburbs has hurt the country aesthetically, environmentally, and sociologically, and also that SI was a nicer place before it was built up.

[scatman]

Originally Posted by Andysocks

^^^

long and convoluted politics, 80s/early 90s economy, etc.

I had long talks with coworkers from SI about this. They're up there talking about business revenue to sustain the "city", from places like.......the Staten Island Yankees!!!!!!! I almost laughed outta my seat!

Nowhere in the conversation did taxes come up (which is what you need to make a city run!).

[citychik]

Really, one of the many reasons New Yorkers in the other boroughs avoided S.I. because of the putrid smell coming from the Fresh Kills Landfill, a dump comprised mostly from NYC's household waste that covered over 2000 acres and was visible from space. It opened in 1947 and was shut down in 2001. That land was originally tidal marshes and farmland, and the city wants to turn it into a park (they will surely have to bury everything under something thick, and monitor chemicals). I hated driving anywhere near it, the smell was unbelievably disgusting.

So, add that to the fact that commuting back and forth from S.I. is a time-consuming pain in the butt for the majority of New Yorkers who don't have cars (seriously - I've worked with S.I.'ers whose commutes into midtown were 2 hours each way), and the old prejudice against Italians (who are/were numerous there) and the working class population whose very distinct accent makes them sound a bit dumb, and the limited cultural offerings outside of Snug Harbor and Historic Richmond Town, it should be fairly easy to see why New Yorkers in the other boroughs just don't want to bother themselves with S.I. unless they have to. I have often joked that there's "no good reason to go there."

I must say, though, that there was always a very wealthy population there (Todt Hill). I mean, hey, Cornelius Vanderbilt lived there and began his empire with a ferry between S.I. and Manhattan. As long as I've lived in NYC, it just always seemed like there was a very clearly delineated division between the uber-wealthy that lived in their enclave and the rest of Staten Island with their pizza parlors, cheesy Christmas decorations, and smelly landfill.

However, things are changing - there is a Film Festival there regularly now, the artist colony is growing due to artists getting priced out of Williamsburg, and in recent years they established the Staten Island Yankees (Minor League) and gave them their own ballpark. People are actually going to S.I. just to see a baseball game.

I very seldom go to S.I., and only when necessary (events that I can't get out of, like a wedding or a party), but I'll still avoid it 'til I know it doesn't stink anymore.