New York vs. Philadelphia (Lancaster, Bath: best neighborhoods, apartment, for rent)

[john_starks]

i love Philly and all but gimme a break.

and i live there.

[NYCBoy1212]

Originally Posted by solibs

Williamsburg is far more dumpy (and probably more dangerous) than a lot of comparable places in Philly but it doesn't stop me from going to check it out for myself.

This doesnt make any sense because according to this Philadelphia is in the top 10 dangerous cities in the US and nyc is way below that.

United States cities by crime rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[jjbradleynyc]

Originally Posted by Soju

No doubt about it. NYC is maybe three to four times larger. But the cost of living in NYC is maybe two to three times Philly as well. I know in recent years many New Yorkers moved to Philly because of this, especially those who want to start a family as Philly suburbs are very affordable and safe.
Center City Philly is much smaller than Manhattan but has become very vibrant with many restaurants, museums, etc. sort of like mini Manhattan without the overcrowding. Its very walkable.
Philly is only two hours away come on down to visit.

Philly sounds amazing! I'd love to visit. I'll have to check it out soon.

[jjbradleynyc]

Originally Posted by dman72

Philly still reeks of urban decay in most areas, where as in NYC, many formerly "bad" areas are booming now.

That's what I've read about Philly.

Most NYC "decayed" areas are gentrifying and or rapidly changing. Areas in NYC that were decayed 10 years ago are now either filled with construction or are still rought around the edges--but humming with life, activity, and the possibility of impending renewal...

[bmwguydc]

The comparison of crime statistics does not warrant a dismissial of Philadlphia's crime rate, equivocating its size to Brooklyn, because by the same token, one could expand the area they consider Philadelphia and include Camden, NJ, which is just across the Delaware River as Brooklyn is from Manhattan, to make the greater Philadelphia area more dangerous by comparison. It's not one that I would tend to make, since Camden is self-contained and has a separate law enforcement agency that handles the jurisdiction, while Brooklyn shares the same agency, the NYPD, so it's not as easy to dismiss the lower crime rate, overall, in Brooklyn.

There are some great areas in Philadelphia, and one is generally safe on the streets, but it is relatively easy to end up in not so nice areas, even today. Fishtown is generally fine as is University City, however, outside of those areas in North and West Philadelphia, respectively, are some dangerous areas. Things are improving, even in historically higher crime enclaves of the city, and I know that Philadelphia is turning a corner and the future looks very good. Even "The Badlands" are beginning to loosen the stranglehold that crime has had on the area for decades.

Moreover, I know that I most certainly am not putting down, nor are most New Yorkers that I know; and, by the same token, most are not afraid of Philadelphia, but some transplants are because they don't know much about the city. Well, let's be honest, the transplants tend not to know too much about New York's history either, when it went through the phase in which Philadelphia now finds itself, turning a corner from neglect and crime and back into a vibrant city. Now, if only something could be done to settle the cheesesteak "war" between Pat's and Geno's, Philadelphia would be all set!

[jjbradleynyc]

Originally Posted by solibs

I grew up in and around New York and the city lost it for me in the late 90's. Now to find the real NY you have to venture deep into the outer boro's. Manhattan is just too Disney now and the same thing is happening to much of Brooklyn.

I'm not saying it's a bad place. It's just not for me. The creative energy the place once reeked of is, for the most part, gone.

I'll also add that if you think that many once "bad" areas of Philly aren't also booming you don't know much about this city. There's so much to explore outside of Center City and some NYers don't do it because they think they're supposed to be scared. That's their loss.

Williamsburg is far more dumpy (and probably more dangerous) than a lot of comparable places in Philly but it doesn't stop me from going to check it out for myself.

I'll have to check out Philly. I've never been, but do understand there are some wonderful 'hoods to see.

As for Williamsburg being "dumpy," well, that is not necessarily an accurate description. The northside of Williamsburg is a construction site at the moment (in a large portion), with all the gritty warehouses clinging on for dear life, with the fear they may be demolished to make way for a new condo building. The southside has a construction site here and there, but overall, it is a very cool 'hood with many throwbacks to Latino culture, the manufacturing/warehouse look of the 50s/60s, and a "soho/tribeca" vibe also thrown in.
It's the eastside of Williamsburg that can get a bit "dumpy." The area around Lorimer & Graham Avenues is highly desirable. The worst part is from Grand St south, to Montrose Ave. This part of the 'hood has a housing project, and can get very sketchy.

[Rachael84]

i've been to Philadelphia a few times. It's a nice city, but not a place I'd want to live. Just seems too small and not exciting enough, no offense to anyone who lives there. If I had to pick a smaller city to live in, it would probably be Boston. Besides NYC, Boston is my second favorite city in the northeast.

Anyway, I love to visit Philadelphia for the cheesesteaks, yum. I go there from time to time for a concert or sports game though. It's a nice place to visit, just wouldn't live there.

[emroyka]

I moved from Center City Philly to Brooklyn this year. Ironically, one thing I miss is living right downtown - there's just no way I could afford a comparable neighborhood in NYC. I used to be minutes by foot from everything and that's definitely no longer the case here. There's certainly benefits to being a more compact and lower-cost city.

The flip side is there's always someplace different to go or do in New York and the diversity's on a whole other level. There definitely is an energy you just don't get in Philly. Everything (including crowds) is just more massive. And I haven't even taken in the museums and shows yet since I'm saving that for winter.

While Philly's definitely not the safer overall, Center City is IMO about as safe as Manhattan. Hopefully the surrounding neighborhoods will eventually catch up...

[solibs]

Originally Posted by jjbradleynyc

As for Williamsburg being "dumpy," well, that is not necessarily an accurate description. The northside of Williamsburg is a construction site at the moment (in a large portion), with all the gritty warehouses clinging on for dear life, with the fear they may be demolished to make way for a new condo building. The southside has a construction site here and there, but overall, it is a very cool 'hood with many throwbacks to Latino culture, the manufacturing/warehouse look of the 50s/60s, and a "soho/tribeca" vibe also thrown in.
It's the eastside of Williamsburg that can get a bit "dumpy." The area around Lorimer & Graham Avenues is highly desirable. The worst part is from Grand St south, to Montrose Ave. This part of the 'hood has a housing project, and can get very sketchy.

So you're saying that a city can have nice places, dumply places and sketchy places? And that one can safely enjoy the nice parts without having to worry too much about the sketchy parts?

I was mostly around the east side of Williamsburg as I have friends who used to live on Whythe (sp?) right next to the Bridge. I have noticed a stark contrast as I walked up and down Driggs around Metropolitan Ave.

I'm aware that there's a lot of construction/investment happening in many parts of Brooklyn. It's just a little hard for me to understand why people think the same thing isn't happening here.

I hope you can understand, from someone who has probably seen a lot more of Brooklyn than most people who have only been there a few years, that there are still a lot of not-so-nice parts of Brooklyn. And when I hang out in a trendy neighborhood like Williamsburg I don't feel like it's better or safer than a Fishtown or Northern Liberties and less so than a neighborhood like Passyunk Square.

Originally Posted by emroyka

While Philly's definitely not the safer overall, Center City is IMO about as safe as Manhattan. Hopefully the surrounding neighborhoods will eventually catch up...

You can't really compare a city of 8 million to a city of 1.5 million. Philly is a lot more like Boston or DC than it will ever be like NYC.

I am curious though did you never hang out at 40th & Walnut? You never went to NoLibs or Fairmount? Never to Bella Vista or Queen Village? and if you did did you really feel threatened or think that they were somehow lacking? I mean, these are all neighborhoods that surround Center City and I'm not sure what else they could do to "catch up?"

[solibs]

Originally Posted by bmwguydc

There are some great areas in Philadelphia, and one is generally safe on the streets, but it is relatively easy to end up in not so nice areas, even today.

As someone who lives here, I heartily disagree. Anyone with any semblance of street smarts will clearly know when they're walking towards a bad neighborhood. Anyone setting out on foot from say, Suburban Station could walk a mile in any direction before finding oneself in a place where one might think it prudent to turn around and head back. But one wouldn't likely head in those directions anyway.

If you walked down Broad St. (or 13th or 10th for that matter) you would walk for well over an hour before getting to the stadiums and realizing that you've reached the end of the city and it's not the least bit threatening. You could do the same thing on Walnut St. or up Kelly Dr. or up 2nd St. to Girard Ave. You can walk the entire length of Passyunk Ave from 5th & South to 25th & Porter.

Here's a rough guide for our New York friends.

The places in green are parts of the city worth seeing. The places in that orange/brown color are places you're better off staying away from. The places that are uncolored (mostly the Northeast, which is like the Staten Island of Philly) isn't dangerous but . . . why would you want to go there?