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Old 08-21-2008, 12:42 PM
 
Location: New York City
1,836 posts, read 1,975,480 times
Reputation: 373
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jrock247 View Post
They should at least be given the benefit of the doubt before being thrown to the proverbial lions.
I don't think bashing in someone's skull in self defense (assuming they come up with this argument), leaving them laying there, not calling for back-up but instead just going home, is in the police "Code of Ethics" manual.
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Old 08-21-2008, 12:55 PM
 
Location: Washington, DC & New York
9,265 posts, read 14,945,773 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BK2Westchester View Post
I don't think bashing in someone's skull in self defense (assuming they come up with this argument), leaving them laying there, not calling for back-up but instead just going home, is in the police "Code of Ethics" manual.
Indeed, if they did nothing wrong, why did they flee the scene? That's the one point that cannot be argued away, in my opinion, as pending an investigation. If the person was dangerous such that the POLICE feared for their lives, which is what would justify the force in that argument, then why did they leave such a reckless individual to bleed on the city street where they would pose more of a danger to the community at large? I am all for getting the facts straight before coming to judgment on the situation, but even if they were in fear, at minimum they would be derelict in their duties allowing someone who just threatened them to warrant excessive force to remain at large.
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Old 08-21-2008, 01:11 PM
 
3,225 posts, read 5,180,288 times
Reputation: 842
why did they flee the scene?
.................................................. .................................................. ....

interesting characterisation of their actions as one ususlly associates fleeing the scene as a bad guy strategy.
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Old 08-21-2008, 01:32 PM
 
235 posts, read 715,324 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quelinda View Post
For some reason these power hungry rogue cops seem to think they can get away with this type of conduct. WHY is my question. What is about the policies at the police force that make them think its acceptable and that they will get away with it. Obviously this view arises since they get away with it all the time without impunity. Like the cop who was caught by the judge (I forget the details) lying right on the witness stand and that cop is still a paid officer who will no doubt continue to lie on the witness stand and people will continue to be convicted based on lies and false statements of officers.
This has nothing to do with any of the NYPD Policies, exept of course their hiring policies. One of these cops is 37 yrs old!!!! Wouldn't you think that a 37 yr old woman would be more mature than this?

The fact is, the NYPD recruitment section has to beg many applicants to enter the Academy to reach their hiring targets. This creates the attitude that the police force needs them more than the applicant needs the job. And that, combined with a gun and badge, is a dangerous combintaion.

In all honesty I wouldn't be surprised if either one of them has been arrested in the past for Assault or even Robbery--and YES! the NYPD has resorted to hiring people arrested for robbery, but who have pled down to lesser charges.

And you wonder why these embarassing incidents keep occuring?
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Old 08-21-2008, 01:40 PM
 
3,225 posts, read 5,180,288 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthQueens149 View Post
This has nothing to do with any of the NYPD Policies, exept of course their hiring policies. One of these cops is 37 yrs old!!!! Wouldn't you think that a 37 yr old woman would be more mature than this?

The fact is, the NYPD recruitment section has to beg many applicants to enter the Academy to reach their hiring targets. This creates the attitude that the police force needs them more than the applicant needs the job. And that, combined with a gun and badge, is a dangerous combintaion.

In all honesty I wouldn't be surprised if either one of them has been arrested in the past for Assault or even Robbery--and YES! the NYPD has resorted to hiring people arrested for robbery, but who have pled down to lesser charges.

And you wonder why these embarassing incidents keep occuring?

Hiring even those with a robbery record? sad and surprising, if true.
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Old 08-21-2008, 01:41 PM
 
235 posts, read 715,324 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miles View Post
...seems to apply with our local police force.

Low salaries, recruits lacking caliber and quality do make a poor force.

We New Yorkers deserve more - allegedly we are the greatest city on earth, according to those better traveled than me - hence we should have the greatest law enforcement on earth to maintain that status.

There are good quality individuals out there from every pigmentation, national origin, borough, economic class, etc. but to attract good quality we cannot have our officers earning such pittances that they still have to live home in their parents' basement eating ramen as a regular diet.

I do believe that we have a decent commissioner and honest law-abiding cops out there who truly care. But when you give someone a badge and a gun and say, hey, you're the law, you'd better be very choosy. After all, our lives may depend on it.

And it's a bad day indeed when we can no longer distinguish the lawless cop-impersonators committing crimes out there from the ones who are authorised to wear the uniform.
Very good post, Miles. What people don't understand is that the NYPD salary is BY FAR lower than just about EVERY police dept in the NYC Metro area. It's not like there is two or three dept's in the area who make 15K-25K more and the rest only make 5K more than a NYC cop. Just about EVERY other police agency in the NYC Metro area makes 15-25K, or 20%-30% more than a NYPD cop. If being a NYC cop were 20%-30% EASIER than those suburban PD's, then maybe this would make sense. BUt most people agree that being a NYC cop is MORE CHALLENGING and more stressful and dangerous, so the low pay just discourages the more qualified applicants who cross the NYPD off their list of agencies their interested in working for.

Some people have a hard time believeing this, thinking that cops don;t do it for the money. Well, most people don't do their jobs strcitly for the money. However, generally speaking, the more money you offer to the Labor Market, the more applicants you attract and the more choosy you can be in who you hire.
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Old 08-21-2008, 01:48 PM
 
3,225 posts, read 5,180,288 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthQueens149 View Post
Very good post, Miles. What people don't understand is that the NYPD salary is BY FAR lower than just about EVERY police dept in the NYC Metro area. It's not like there is two or three dept's in the area who make 15K-25K more and the rest only make 5K more than a NYC cop. Just about EVERY other police agency in the NYC Metro area makes 15-25K, or 20%-30% more than a NYPD cop. If being a NYC cop were 20%-30% EASIER than those suburban PD's, then maybe this would make sense. BUt most people agree that being a NYC cop is MORE CHALLENGING and more stressful and dangerous, so the low pay just discourages the more qualified applicants who cross the NYPD off their list of agencies their interested in working for.

Some people have a hard time believeing this, thinking that cops don;t do it for the money. Well, most people don't do their jobs strcitly for the money. However, generally speaking, the more money you offer to the Labor Market, the more applicants you attract and the more choosy you can be in who you hire.

totally agree.
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Old 08-21-2008, 01:58 PM
 
235 posts, read 715,324 times
Reputation: 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by bx718 View Post
Translation: To hire more "minorities", the standards have to be lowered. Unbelievable!
What really happened is this: When the NYPD paid a competitive wage, it attracted more white applicants and was often criticized over their lack of diversity. As the pay became less and less competitive, the NYPD got religion on the whole "diversity" thing as they had more and more problems hiring people.

The problem this creates is, that the low pay means you generally attract fewer qualified applicants, and the diversity efforts means you hire more minorities during this time--so you end up with more embarassing incidents involving minorities.

You want diversity? Great, but why not offer a genuinely competitive wage so you can attract more and more genuinely qualified minorities? Do you think qualified minorities come cheaper than qualified whites? Of course not

This past May, Suffolk PD (Top Pay 90K+) went to Brownsville and set upa recruiting table. They were treated like rock stars (or maybe Rap stars is more accurate ) Just b/c people re poor and black, doesn't mean they don't know the value of a dollar and the difference between a 90K cop job and a 65K cop job.
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Old 08-21-2008, 03:11 PM
 
Location: Washington, DC & New York
9,265 posts, read 14,945,773 times
Reputation: 4923
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miles View Post
why did they flee the scene?
.................................................. .................................................. ....

interesting characterisation of their actions as one ususlly associates fleeing the scene as a bad guy strategy.
Indeed, that is usually what one associates with the classic bad guy modus operandi.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Miles View Post
Lastly, one must recognize that there are valiant cops out there. There are cops who risk their lives to protect us from the criminal elements who unleash their criminality on us.

The real issue is that we don't want a force with say, 75% or 80% good cops. We demand a force with 100% bona fide cops paid to protect us, not have us cower in fear and being violated both by the guys in the uniform and the neighborhood thugs without one.
Agreed, 100%, the good officers are unfairly characterized with blanket statements applied to the entire force, who likely do not want the diminished element within the force. The city does deserve a force that is 100%, but events do occur, so maybe 99.99% at any given time?
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Old 08-21-2008, 06:42 PM
 
175 posts, read 374,277 times
Reputation: 46
Police shouldn't harass anyone. But asking questions is not harassment - even if the person being asked feels harassed or singled out because of the way they dress. Why would someone who dresses like a thug be surprised that they are questioned?

In any organization the size of the NYPD you're going to get bad apples. The NYPD needs to have procedures in place to find and get rid of bad apples. But you can't point to isolated incidents and say the problems are endemic any more than you can point to the bad acts of people in a minority group and attribute those acts to the entire group.

If the problems were really endemic in the NYPD, given the number of members, you'd have a lot more violations.
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