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Old 08-23-2008, 07:02 AM
 
576 posts, read 1,752,715 times
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Why do people want a clean sanitized NYC? Whats the point of living in the city if artists cant afford to live and thrive there unless they are being supported by a trust fund?

For many people...the Generica/condo movement in Manhattan is making me wonder....why bother? This city is quickly becoming a facade....

I dont want Greenwich or Shaker Heights, I want NYC back!
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Old 08-23-2008, 09:54 AM
 
939 posts, read 3,082,668 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JiminCT View Post
Why do people want a clean sanitized NYC? Whats the point of living in the city if artists cant afford to live and thrive there unless they are being supported by a trust fund?

For many people...the Generica/condo movement in Manhattan is making me wonder....why bother? This city is quickly becoming a facade....

I dont want Greenwich or Shaker Heights, I want NYC back!
Let the artists struggle.... It builds character.
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Old 08-24-2008, 12:55 PM
 
576 posts, read 1,752,715 times
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I think we need to remove the rich Marty McGillucddies and bankrupt them.
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Old 08-24-2008, 01:28 PM
 
Location: Portlandia "burbs"
10,234 posts, read 13,982,771 times
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Same thing happened in SOMA (South of Market) in San Francisco. I used to love visiting that part of the city. It was gritty and plain but it had all these wonderful outlet shops all over the place, plus it was where artists could live a little cheaper.

It got gentrified several years ago, the shops are gone, and there's nothing for me there anymore as a visitor.
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Old 08-24-2008, 01:42 PM
 
Location: Queens
536 posts, read 2,138,602 times
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Now if you're a starving artist you have to live in a crappy part of Brooklyn rather than a crappy part of Manhattan. I really don't see the difference.
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Old 08-24-2008, 02:28 PM
 
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I find complaints like this pretty ironic considering artists have consistently been the fuel which jumpstarts the gentrification process. They move into a crappy neighborhood, make it a little interesting, rents go up a bit, poor people get displaced, neighborhood gets trendier, less adventurous people start to move in, rents skyrocket, artists whine about being priced out. If they simply found cheap rent and went about creating art none of this would happen but what they really want is to colonize cheap neighborhoods and create artsy wonderlands without the market realities that everyone else in the city has to live with.
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Old 08-25-2008, 08:20 AM
 
Location: Reno, NV
821 posts, read 2,473,339 times
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I tend to agree with Andysocks and Eephus, though I acknowledge that this can be a touchy subject. Every generation feels like their world was better in the good old days. Madonna waxed sentimental about NYC in the 1980's SFGate: Daily Dish : Madonna Says Sorry to New York

Part of the problem is our insane housing market. Rents have to be jacked up not just because of landlord greed, but because the rent of unregulated tenants has to make up for the shortfall created by regulated tenants. Know anybody paying half what the market rate would be? This creates a situation where many NY'ers start to feel like they have a God-given right to cheap rent for the rest of their lives. And even though they are renters, they start to think that they possess the rights of an owner. This system has become so entrenched, that I can't see anyway out of it. In a more sane market, if you don't like the rent, you move. But people here come to view thier rent-regulated apartments as gold, and never move, indeed, they may even pass on their apartment to their kids. (The kid would have to live in the apartment for at least two years prior to the death of the parent.) Inheriting a rental apartment?? No wonder people start to think of themselves as having a God-given right to below-market rent not only for the rest of their lives, but their descendents' lives, too. And I know a senior citizen who lives in a very nice three-bedroom apartment in a very desirable neighborhood who pays 1/3 what the market rent would be, and she won't move because she's trapped by the cheap rent. So an apartment that is designed for a family of four is in the hands of a single person. Does that make sense? (If someone is paying market rent, then they can live in whatever splendor they choose.) So the landlord has to jack up the rent of the unregulated apartments to make it up. But there is no God-given right to live in New York City. I was born and raised here, but often think about moving to somewhere with a better cost of living. When I suggested this (moving out of NYC) to a person in a neighboring building who is rent-regulated AND was complaining about the cost of living, she looked at me like I was nuts. She obviously thinks she has a God-given right to below-market rent for the rest of her life. The idea of moving was out of the question.

I'm not arguing the market is perfect. I'm not Milton Friedman. But the market will work better than this this crazy rent regulation, which started after WWII to protect returning servicemen. For example, the condo market in Miami. The market says, it's overbuilt, and prices have come down.

What has this got to do with soulless NYC? The fact that high rents drive out artists, musicians, actors. Of course if any of these people do hit it big, they never spend millions on a fancy place to live
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Old 08-25-2008, 08:25 AM
 
10,777 posts, read 13,673,547 times
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As someone said earlier, the gentrification movement is almost always started by artists. The minorities in the area complain about them. Then, when the minorities are gone, the yuppies move in and push out the artists, and they complain.

A few Artists I know in Williamsburg did the right thing..they bought their places before it blew up in the 90's. They can afford to live there because they bought their 500K place for under 100K 15 years ago, and now they are sitting on big bucks if they ever wanted to move.

Following that line of reasoning, artist types should be looking to buy in Bushwick.
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Old 08-25-2008, 09:00 AM
 
173 posts, read 151,904 times
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Umm...maybe when you get beaten and robbed for your iphone...or are unable to walk through a park for fear of being accosted by drug dealers/prostitutes/stepping on a hypodermic needle, or walking through Times Square only to be met with perverts/pedophiles/prostitutes/porn shops, or riding a train and attacked by a mob of thugs/teens, or have your home/car/place of business graffittied every day, or walk through 6 inches deep of garbage on the streets and bums on every bench/corner/train/bus, or rent a rate trap apt and live like an animal.....maybe then you will understand that we are not seeking a "clean sanitized NYC." We are seeking a better NYC, one where you can enjoy the great parks that we have, have safe and reliable transportation, have the ability to have your sister/mom/wife/daughter safely get from point A to point B without the threat of violence/attack, live in decent housing, have a diverse group of people and amenities and not just porn shops/fried chicken joints/pizzerias/chinese take-out, etc. Its not all about artists, believe it or not, we all want the same things. If you believe the "city" is quickly becoming a facade, which it is not, I encourage you to get on the train and move to the Bronx....South Bronx to be exact. You will find all of the grittiness and old school NYC that you crave, and then some. The Old school NYC is alive and well and flourishing for that matter..you are just choosing not to see or know nothing of the city...or both.
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Old 08-25-2008, 12:09 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia,New Jersey, NYC!
6,967 posts, read 18,208,147 times
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^^ good post
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