What is the absolute worst nieghborhood in nyc? (New York, Patterson: to rent, safe neighborhood)

[bmwguydc]

People have been speculating that Bed-Stuy is going to follow the trend of other Brooklyn neighborhoods where they missed the trend. Priced out of Park Slope and Fort Greene, they look to the next area that could potentially become hot and gamble. Early gentrifiers do tend to profit the most when the neighborhood takes off, and if the trend keeps going there can be a huge upside potential once the neighborhood is restored. This can take time, and is cyclical, so while the prices have edged up, it's in relation to other similar neighborhoods nearby, as there are a finite number of houses available closer-in and the natural movement would be to continue to progress into Bed-Stuy.

Crime is separate from the real estate prices right now; it's been more of a phenomenon of people missing the boat on Park Slope, Fort Greene, Harlem, etc. and looking to establish themselves ahead of the trend, hoping that crime comes under control and the safer streets really open up the neighborhood. Moreover, there has been a demographic shift in cities, with more families choosing to take up residence within the borders, not relocating to the suburbs as previous generations have done, which also helps to increase overall demand and edges prices upward, given that the prices are not reflective of the current states of affairs within the transitional neighborhoods. It's more a future vision for which people are purchasing, and hoping that what happened in other neighborhoods will happen in Bed-Stuy, but it's impossible to tell if that will be 5 years or 25 years down the road.

[UrbanQuest]

I have reviewed almost all of the threads on this subject as well as researched other opinions etc. over the internet. I have narrowed my choices down to two, using a very complex and unbiased reasoning pattern to try and corrall this matrix of opinions to two neighborhoods in New York City that would arbitrarily fit the description of "worst neighborhood".
1. Morrisania/Bronx
2. Brownsville/Brooklyn

All arbitrary anyway......

[roewalker]

Isn't a demographic shift a shift in behavior trending toward the incoming group (less street crime) . I mean people may come in and start to boogie, but I don't think they are going to set up shop on the corner.

Is it not also a self-fulfilling phrophecy - all things being equal.

Also the mayors in all these cities welcome the new tax base and greater consumer business, less criminal minded citizens, so they create programs and projects that create a more attractive area or neighborhood if you will.

Originally Posted by bmwguydc

Moreover, there has been a demographic shift in cities, with more families choosing to take up residence within the borders, not relocating to the suburbs as previous generations have done, which also helps to increase overall demand and edges prices upward, given that the prices are not reflective of the current states of affairs within the transitional neighborhoods. It's more a future vision for which people are purchasing, and hoping that what happened in other neighborhoods will happen in Bed-Stuy, but it's impossible to tell if that will be 5 years or 25 years down the road.

[bmwguydc]

Originally Posted by roewalker

Isn't a demographic shift a shift in behavior trending toward the incoming group (less street crime) . I mean people may come in and start to boogie, but I don't think they are going to set up shop on the corner.

Is it not also a self-fulfilling phrophecy - all things being equal.

Also the mayors in all these cities welcome the new tax base and greater consumer business, less criminal minded citizens, so they create programs and projects that create a more attractive area or neighborhood if you will.

Yes, the newer residents are generally favored by municipalities, since they bring revenue and it costs less to police the same area due to lower crime; however, it takes years for the reality to come to fruition, and certain neighborhoods are still in transition. If things continue, they will migrate more towards the model of other urban renewals in formerly blighted and underserved zones, but that is dependent upon the commitment of the government and the citizen groups to be active in creating the change.

The long-term goal is to shift away from crime and certain neighborhoods are more suited to this than others, due to the type of housing that exists within them and the access to transportation and services. What turned a lot of Brooklyn around were the brownstone communities, a housing style favorable with many people, but there are only so many brownstownes to go around and prices have crept up in better neighborhoods, hence the desire to find others that can be restored.

Bed-Stuy has brownstones, but it will take time for the neighborhood to fully revitalize, since it's not so easy to curb crime and remove criminal elements overnight. Right now, it's a very transitional area, and the prices reflect the commoditization of the brownstone, a "holy grail" of New York real estate for many, and they are still affordable compared to their counterparts in other city neighborhoods. Comparatively, while the prices may be high for Bed-Stuy's current state, the brownstone price is relatively inexpensive when looked at from a city-wide view, where the sales prices in revitalized areas are well into seven figure territory.

That's the upside potential that's driving up the prices, bringing in the first wave of new residents who will put up with the crime, for now, and begin to make inroads for changing the fundamental structure of the neighborhood to bring it back from the brink. Part of the problem with the area has been the number of housing projects within the areas that comprise Bed-Stuy, since historically they have been a contributor to the crime problems of the neighborhood. People are gambling that the new initiatives by the police with the impact zones will tend to correct the crime issues, especially in the wake of the demise of the crack epidemic that destroyed much of what was left of Bed-Stuy.

[Shizzles]

I think Bed-Stuy and Crown Heights will eventually prosper. Outer areas like Brownsville-ENY, East Bronx, SE Queens, and SI (Yes, SI) will eventually take it on the chin.

The problem is that the welfare class isn't going anywhere. Yes, they may clear out of LES, Harlem, Central Brooklyn, but they'll simply move into other areas that aren't as soild. As long as NYS makes it more lucrative for people to remain within the benefits system than pursue employment, this will continue. Alot of poverty has left the city(and will continue to), however, the poverty that will remain will be the bottom of the barrel (SF, Chicago are case examples). This might put a damper on just how low crime and quality of life offenses will really go.

[sobrodude]

I agree with that to some degree, however with the financial crisis that is looming, and the higher taxes and cost of living that will increase for the forseeable future, expect the exodus of the poor to accelerate. Don't forget, now that we are in dire straits, the city will be cutting the fat, with many welfare programs taking a hit, further accelerating the poor out of the city. As a result, the real poor will be left to live in the Housing Projects, as an increasing number of LLs are refusing section 8 vouchers, and other kinds of government subsidy vouchers....I am one of those LLs, as are increasing numbers of my neighbors. The current motto of my neighborhood in Mott Haven , the epicenter of government subsidies like Section 8, is "no more Section 8." And if that attitude is prevailing in Mott Haven, it must be all over the rest of the city.

[roewalker]

i think that is a fair representation.

Originally Posted by bmwguydc

Yes, the newer residents are generally favored by municipalities, since they bring revenue and it costs less to police the same area due to lower crime; however, it takes years for the reality to come to fruition, and certain neighborhoods are still in transition. If things continue, they will migrate more towards the model of other urban renewals in formerly blighted and under served zones, but that is dependent upon the commitment of the government and the citizen groups to be active in creating the change.

The long-term goal is to shift away from crime and certain neighborhoods are more suited to this than others, due to the type of housing that exists within them and the access to transportation and services. What turned a lot of Brooklyn around were the brownstone communities, a housing style favorable with many people, but there are only so many brownstownes to go around and prices have crept up in better neighborhoods, hence the desire to find others that can be restored.

Bed-Stuy has brownstones, but it will take time for the neighborhood to fully revitalize, since it's not so easy to curb crime and remove criminal elements overnight. Right now, it's a very transitional area, and the prices reflect the commoditization of the brownstone, a "holy grail" of New York real estate for many, and they are still affordable compared to their counterparts in other city neighborhoods. Comparatively, while the prices may be high for Bed-Stuy's current state, the brownstone price is relatively inexpensive when looked at from a city-wide view, where the sales prices in revitalized areas are well into seven figure territory.

That's the upside potential that's driving up the prices, bringing in the first wave of new residents who will put up with the crime, for now, and begin to make inroads for changing the fundamental structure of the neighborhood to bring it back from the brink. Part of the problem with the area has been the number of housing projects within the areas that comprise Bed-Stuy, since historically they have been a contributor to the crime problems of the neighborhood. People are gambling that the new initiatives by the police with the impact zones will tend to correct the crime issues, especially in the wake of the demise of the crack epidemic that destroyed much of what was left of Bed-Stuy.

[jackson92186]

The current motto of my neighborhood in Mott Haven , the epicenter of government subsidies like Section 8, is "no more Section 8." And if that attitude is prevailing in Mott Haven, it must be all over the rest of the city.

If that's the case, you are breaking the law. It is a law you cannot discriminate agaist section 8 vouchers and I see no reason why you would.

I don't understand your logic. Why would the cost of living go up, if the housing demand goes down? You may be right, if things get extremely crazy, the poor will leave to work on farms. But the rich will leave too. The first jobs to go are the high paying ones. That is going to make everybody more poor. In fact those very welfare programs that you think that will be cut are the very programs that were instated during the great depression. So if such a thing is to happen, expect more government programs, not less. The poor here will work construction projects and labor will become less expensive. Manufacturing will come back to the US.

[Shizzles]

Originally Posted by sobrodude

I agree with that to some degree, however with the financial crisis that is looming, and the higher taxes and cost of living that will increase for the forseeable future, expect the exodus of the poor to accelerate. Don't forget, now that we are in dire straits, the city will be cutting the fat, with many welfare programs taking a hit, further accelerating the poor out of the city. As a result, the real poor will be left to live in the Housing Projects, as an increasing number of LLs are refusing section 8 vouchers, and other kinds of government subsidy vouchers....I am one of those LLs, as are increasing numbers of my neighbors. The current motto of my neighborhood in Mott Haven , the epicenter of government subsidies like Section 8, is "no more Section 8." And if that attitude is prevailing in Mott Haven, it must be all over the rest of the city.

Sorry, too many limosine Liberals and government workers to let go of the teat. Of course, if the SHTF in a big way, it may get violently ripped away from them. It took the horrors of the crack epidemic to wake people up to the true face of welfare/ghetto NY and ditch the bleeding heart garbage. After 15 years of clam, I fear the complacency is creeping back.

[Pete Piper]

Originally Posted by jackson92186

If that's the case, you are breaking the law. It is a law you cannot discriminate agaist section 8 vouchers and I see no reason why you would.

I believe it's only illegal to discriminate if the building houses 6 or more families.