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Ya right Miles, I aint outgunned! I couldnt even understand bmwuydc's response. Way too complicated for me. He's probably a speech writer for a senator! I know my limitations, I'm outta here........
Indeed, you are correct, Miles. I do advocate an inclusive approach that builds upon the positive elements already existing in an area, even if one has to resurrect them from the annals of history in light of destructive forces that may have taken hold in recent years.
It's amazing to consider that there are more than a few neighborhoods in NYC that were vibrant, middle and upper middle class communities, that were absolutely destroyed. The Grand Concourse, alone, exemplifies this handily as do parts of Brooklyn and Queens, and the reasons for the failures of these areas are varied, but now with housing at a premium in the city, the stage is set for such locals to begin to return to what they were. It's important to consider the needs of all, however, since the mere displacement of one group for another, without correcting the shortcomings, be they transportation, shopping, parks, cultural amenities, will only last for a finite time period. If in the 1940s one said that by the end of the 1960s some vibrant communities would be destroyed, people would have thought that one was mad to even suggest such a notion, but it did happen, and if we don't accept the reasons for this and rebuild it into a structured community that bridges the gaps, it can happen again.
One of the major reasons gentrification has such a negative connotation is that it is deemed as an exploitative exercise, and once the profits are made the developers care little as to what happens to the communities. For true change, this needs to be factored, not so much so that developers need to be social stewards and limit profits to do so, but perhaps through increased management objectives of community partners and the municipality, welcoming the new development and revitalization within the framework of the overarching neighborhood goals.
Ya right Miles, I aint outgunned! I couldnt even understand bmwuydc's response. Way too complicated for me. He's probably a speech writer for a senator! I know my limitations, I'm outta here........
Hey now! I like your approach, welder. I really do, since as Miles pointed out, you really get to the heart of the matter. Your passion and experience come through and it is refreshing to blend perspectives.
Indeed, you are correct, Miles. I do advocate an inclusive approach that builds upon the positive elements already existing in an area, even if one has to resurrect them from the annals of history in light of destructive forces that may have taken hold in recent years.
It's amazing to consider that there are more than a few neighborhoods in NYC that were vibrant, middle and upper middle class communities, that were absolutely destroyed. The Grand Concourse, alone, exemplifies this handily as do parts of Brooklyn and Queens, and the reasons for the failures of these areas are varied, but now with housing at a premium in the city, the stage is set for such locals to begin to return to what they were. It's important to consider the needs of all, however, since the mere displacement of one group for another, without correcting the shortcomings, be they transportation, shopping, parks, cultural amenities, will only last for a finite time period. If in the 1940s one said that by the end of the 1960s some vibrant communities would be destroyed, people would have thought that one was mad to even suggest such a notion, but it did happen, and if we don't accept the reasons for this and rebuild it into a structured community that bridges the gaps, it can happen again.
One of the major reasons gentrification has such a negative connotation is that it is deemed as an exploitative exercise, and once the profits are made the developers care little as to what happens to the communities. For true change, this needs to be factored, not so much so that developers need to be social stewards and limit profits to do so, but perhaps through increased management objectives of community partners and the municipality, welcoming the new development and revitalization within the framework of the overarching neighborhood goals.
I couldn't have asked for better responses than those from you and welder. Both of you have touched at the core of the matter. Thanks guys, and before I turn the lights out, I vote bmw and welder as advisers to the powers that be in government who oversee/guide these processes.
I'm not kidding when I say that one sometimes learns so much more and gets so much more wisdom from this forum than from listening to politicians trying to appease everybody and bureaucrats trying to hold office at any costs.
nothing against the yuppy set, they do add to the city. but there needs to be BALANCE. In the 80s and 90s, the rich yuppies lived in Manhattan or a handful of outerborough locales, the hipsters did their pioneering thing in soho and all those areas, and a million different ethnicities/races lived in unique enclaves. there were middle upper and lower class all lving in the same city affordably. There were generations of roots in this city. Now theres no room for the working class NYer anymore. With a city that has so much money, average natives are forced to either go broke or pack up and leave.
This whole yuppification thing is similar to mom and pop shops being replaced by bland big box stores, people themselves seem to have a big box chain personality when they are imported in. Every newcomer is a white collar banker/lawyer/entertainment business, etc or a starving hipster. I never see newcomers in other jobs, such as policeman or plumber. So to me, there is no diversity here.
Grand concourse was shot because a certain group left in a mass exodus for Co Op City
DITC, u basically summed up my very first THREAD I posted here about "NY get a grip". I wasnt trying to offend everyone, but explain this place isnt really the "best" city for alot of average Joe's. I took alot of heat for that thread. Some because I aint from here, and some because of how I worded my post. NYC is almost like 2 different worlds between the classes. Im a white guy living in Flushing, I dont see much diversity unless I leave Flushing. Unless u count the indians who own the Dunkin Donuts. Every bar I drink in, first thing I get asked, " Are u a cop"? I wish I got a free drink for every time I was asked that! I dont think TRUE diversity exists ANYWHERE. TRUE DIVERSITY to me, would be walking into a bar an ... (u know the joke, u got a jew, a indian, a chinaman). Not all asians drinking in one bar, all jamicans drinking in another bar, etc. NYC is not a working class friendly kind of city. Even the union blue collar guys will have trouble buying a house in the NYC of today. The older guys are ok. But the kids of today? New single family homes in Flushing, 1.2 million. Maybe there's some cheaper. But last summer I looked at a 900 sq ft condo for 500 grand. So they wont be that much cheaper. Nobody's going to build a new 1000 sq ft home here. The lots cost to much to do that. NYC home ownership is the lowest in the country. Low 30's%. "Surviving" in NYC and "MAKING" it here, are two completely different things to me. That's why if someone aint from NYC, their opinons can change over time after living here. But if they got the BIG wallstreet job or whatever, it might not.
DITC, had to throw this in. I actually got into an arguementat at a bar with an asian guy, when he asked me where I was from. I told him america. He said I DONT THINK SO! He said, Where were u born? How's that for diversity? I hope I aint the last american in Flushing! LOL If I am, I guess Ill have to grab the FLAG on my way out! LOL
Grand concourse was shot because a certain group left in a mass exodus for Co Op City
So true, and the standards began to slip, older buildings with huge apartments were subdivided into smaller apartments to get more in the way of rent, maintenance was deferred, and thus began the decline.
I couldn't have asked for better responses than those from you and welder. Both of you have touched at the core of the matter. Thanks guys, and before I turn the lights out, I vote bmw and welder as advisers to the powers that be in government who oversee/guide these processes.
I'm not kidding when I say that one sometimes learns so much more and gets so much more wisdom from this forum than from listening to politicians trying to appease everybody and bureaucrats trying to hold office at any costs.
LOL...thanks, Miles. I appreciate your insightful post to get the ball rolling on this topic, and I agree that one can learn much from this forum on all sorts of topics, from the difficult and charged to the humorous.
I'm not going to lie, I'll probably accept kick backs .......
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