New York City area: Secede from New York State? (Buffalo: casino, taxes)

[Moderate Guy]

Originally Posted by FutureCop

New York would be strengthened without Buffalo and Rochester. It's Buffalo and Rochester who'd be weakened. They're already weak. I don't see how our area would have a problem. We'd be larger than Luxemberg in Europe, which is a COUNTRY. Plus, this is the most powerful city in the world. I doubt the government would mess with us, that is, if they care abou the economy.

one can't always base secession rights on being larger than a country. If that were the case every borough could claim independence priveleges - all being individually larger than Barbados.

[Futcha]

Originally Posted by Miles

one can't always base secession rights on being larger than a country. If that were the case every borough could claim independence priveleges - all being individually larger than Barbados.

We're talking land area, right?

That's true, though. But we're not Wichita here, we're New York. This is the one city in America that the government would probably side with in secession from the rest of the state.

[SilkCity0416]

But as one poster stated, where will our water and for that matter, electricity come from? Without water and power, NYC is nothing.

[DesiArnez6]

Hmm, tempting, but I fear some of the other posters are right, we need water and electricity to function. Now If we were part of New Jersey...

Seriously, New York State isn't That bad I don't think.

New York City is also the most progressive region in the state. Granted, Upstate is too compared to the nation, but, NY is worth 31 electoral votes right? Now if this was split and upstate went red (Could this happen?), Considering how close electoral politics has been lately, could this considerably favor conservative federal politics, thereby hurting NYC longterm?

[UpstaterInBklyn]

This is a topic that comes up often and is the subject of several threads, but it's always fun to discuss.

The reality is that there are two regions in the state with sharply different priorities and needs from government.

New York is also not the only state in the country with this problem. Compare Northern and Southern Virginia or Eastern and Western Pennsylvania. California has at least three distinct regions with different needs from government.

The regional problems, however, are exacerbated in NYS. The economic devastation of Upstate, and its subsequent need to be "carried" by NYC/LI taxpayers is mostly the result of a set of laws and a taxation structure that is designed for NYC/LI, but simply does not work Upstate, where the cost of government needs to be drastically reduced.

BMWGuy is correct (as usual) in his analysis:

...the varied regions of NYS are more interdependent than independent and it might be more worthwhile to work towards reforms in Albany than set up parallel governmental structures to do the same work.

What BMWGuy says is right, and there is no reason why this can't happen. However, governance in Albany is so bad, it is beyond incompetent. Just saying "reforms in Albany" is almost laughable (no offense, Guy)

As long is we are talking secession, a more appropriate action would be for Upstate to secede and become part of Ohio or Michigan. The Upstate region has more in common with those states, economically and culturally, than it does with NYC/LI.

[welder]

Originally Posted by FutureCop

I'm sick and tired of hearing about young people fleeing New York State, upstate New York being a rust belt hole, New York State having no money, etc. None of this applies to the New York City Metropolitan Area, and yet they drag us down with the rest of the state. I think it's time for New York City, Long Island, Westchester County, Dutchess County, Rockland County, and Orange County to secede. We can form our own state and we'd probably be better off. What do you think? Is Upstate New York (Western NY) dragging us down and offsetting the statewide statistics and making our area look bad?

Wow, your LIFE really does REVOLVE around NYC in EVERYTHING! I've read many of your prior posts. EVERY MAJOR city in the US could probably say and claim the same things. I'm not going to waste the time by trying to crunch or look up stats. But I'm sure NYC recieves money from that state in some form.

In fact, I could have sworn when I worked up in buffalo, I heard them guys saying that NYC was a drain on the state. That ALL the resources went to NYC. Maybe these guys didn't know what they were talking about (dumb construction workers LOL). But doesn't the state pay for welfare, etc? And I'm sure back in the 70's the city was doing as well. This is the epitmy of 'NYC ELETIST' talk that I've ever heard.

So what you are saying is, basically you could care less about NY State. It's only NYC that concerns you and the rest of the state and people bring you and NYC's image down? I'm not from NY, so I personally could care less. But, I'm proud of my ENTIRE HOME STATE of Pa, and ALL it's contributions from the people, cities, and towns made there (ya, I even include Philly in that LOL).

Maybe you should grab a history book and look at some of the good things that the rest of the state has contributed, before bum rapping it. Could you live without 'Buffalo wings'? I mean you could, but would you want to? Niagra Falls is one of the '7 wonders of the world' ain't it? You don't want to be assosiated with that either? Don't kick ANY rust belt city's in the teeth. Ya, they're down (and some even out), but they were a major part of BUILDING AMERICA back in the day. Respect an embrace your history, don't bash it.

[Moderate Guy]

Originally Posted by welder

Wow, your LIFE really does REVOLVE around NYC in EVERYTHING! I've read many of your prior posts. EVERY MAJOR city in the US could probably say and claim the same things. I'm not going to waste the time by trying to crunch or look up stats. But I'm sure NYC recieves money from that state in some form.

In fact, I could have sworn when I worked up in buffalo, I heard them guys saying that NYC was a drain on the state. That ALL the resources went to NYC. Maybe these guys didn't know what they were talking about (dumb construction workers LOL). But doesn't the state pay for welfare, etc? And I'm sure back in the 70's the city was doing as well. This is the epitmy of 'NYC ELETIST' talk that I've ever heard.

So what you are saying is, basically you could care less about NY State. It's only NYC that concerns you and the rest of the state and people bring you and NYC's image down? I'm not from NY, so I personally could care less. But, I'm proud of my ENTIRE HOME STATE of Pa, and ALL it's contributions from the people, cities, and towns made there (ya, I even include Philly in that LOL).

Maybe you should grab a history book and look at some of the good things that the rest of the state has contributed, before bum rapping it. Could you live without 'Buffalo wings'? I mean you could, but would you want to? Niagra Falls is one of the '7 wonders of the world' ain't it? You don't want to be assosiated with that either? Don't kick ANY rust belt city's in the teeth. Ya, they're down (and some even out), but they were a major part of BUILDING AMERICA back in the day. Respect an embrace your history, don't bash it.

I wasn't even taking the OP seriously but I guess he meant it to be serious? But you are correct that as a state resident one should consider the contributions of each region in making the state one entity and attractive to other states, the federal government, businesses, visitors, tourists, employees, et al.

[welder]

Originally Posted by Miles

I wasn't even taking the OP seriously but I guess he meant it to be serious? But you are correct that as a state resident one should consider the contributions of each region in making the state one entity and attractive to other states, the federal government, businesses, visitors, tourists, employees, et al.

Miles, I've read alot of this guys prior posts, I think he's 'DEAD SERIOUS'! Ya, I mean what he's saying, could be said about every state. Most states have 1 or 2 major cities that really contribute to the wealth of the state. Florida, California, and Texas are 3 states off hand that I can think of that have more. Hey, if San Fran was it's own state, they'd be doing pretty well too. The list goes on an on. If I didn't read alot of his prior posts, I would have taken this as 'tongue and cheek' too. But I do think is being serious.

[Moderate Guy]

Originally Posted by welder

Miles, I've read alot of this guys prior posts, I think he's 'DEAD SERIOUS'! Ya, I mean what he's saying, could be said about every state. Most states have 1 or 2 major cities that really contribute to the wealth of the state. Florida, California, and Texas are 3 states off hand that I can think of that have more. Hey, if San Fran was it's own state, they'd be doing pretty well too. The list goes on an on. If I didn't read alot of his prior posts, I would have taken this as 'tongue and cheek' too. But I do think is being serious.

Carrying his logic further, Manhattan can arguably allow the outer boroughs to secede. Staten Island wanted to do that years ago. Then even within a borough, some faction could evolve, say, Riverdale would have nothing to do with Mott Haven and decided that Riverdale should be its own entity. Where would this all end?

[welder]

Originally Posted by Miles

Carrying his logic further, Manhattan can arguably allow the outer boroughs to secede. Staten Island wanted to do that years ago. Then even within a borough, some faction could evolve, say, Riverdale would have nothing to do with Mott Haven and decided that Riverdale should be its own entity. Where would this all end?

LOL NYC'ers would never let that happen though. You know why? NYC would know longer be the BIGGEST city in America. Actually, Brooklyn and Queens would be bigger cities! LOL Can you imagine a person from Queens, visiting the SMALL city of Mannhattan? You gotta 'take the good with the bad'. That's life...........