New York City area: Secede from New York State? (Albany: to live, wealthy)

[Tungsten_Udder]

Originally Posted by FutureCop

I'm sick and tired of hearing about young people fleeing New York State, upstate New York being a rust belt hole, New York State having no money, etc. None of this applies to the New York City Metropolitan Area, and yet they drag us down with the rest of the state. I think it's time for New York City, Long Island, Westchester County, Dutchess County, Rockland County, and Orange County to secede. We can form our own state and we'd probably be better off. What do you think? Is Upstate New York (Western NY) dragging us down and offsetting the statewide statistics and making our area look bad?

I'd agree with it the secession movement as long as Northern New Jersey is in NYC's state. It always seemed to me that if Queens, Brooklyn and the Bronx are part of New York City, so should be Northern New Jersey--at least from Bayonne on the southern end of that peninsula up through at least Teaneck/Englewood/Englewood Cliffs on the north, across from The Bronx.

[jawny08]

NY has several things going against it.

1) The majority of NYC's suburban population lives in NJ and CT. Most other large cities do not have to compete with other states for jobs and people (within their own metro area).
2) NY State sends far more to DC than it gets back. Only CA sends more. This means higher local taxes.
3) Population loss upstate due to poor business climate and climate. Upstate is also reliant on downstate for funding.

If the ENTIRE NY Metro could become one state (including CT and NJ) then it would definately make sense. The current borders in the Northeast do not serve local interests well. Here is my suggestion for redistricting:
- New York would = NYC, LI, Lower Hudson Valley, western CT, north NJ.
- Western/NE PA would then merge with upstate NY.
- SE PA would merge with south NJ.
- Eastern CT would merge with RI.

This would never happen, but it should. It would help merge places with similar needs and goals. Even with transportation this would help. In NYC you currently have a number of different transit agencies serving the same area due to the poor choice of state borders.

I suggest people take a look at my "Ways to start a NY turnaround" thread. It touches on some things NY can do to stem population/business losses.

PS - NYC gets their water from Westchester County.

[bmwguydc]

Originally Posted by jawny08

PS - NYC gets their water from Westchester County.

Part of the water that serves NYC is from the Croton Aqueduct system in Westchester and Putnam. There's a second water system, however, that's significantly longer and that's the Catskills Aqueduct system that was begun in the early years of the Twentieth Century. That system begins in Ulster County, and continues all the way to Manhattan. And, the third water system, which I believe is the largest, and also the newest is the Delaware Aqueduct which begins in Delaware County and runs to NYC.

So, its not just Westchester; and, the watersheds in the Catskills are far larger than Westchester & Putnam which have had significant growth since the original aqueducts were planned and built.

Remember, Katonah was moved for the reservoir and all the towns in Westchester that border the watershed have restrictions that govern development, many of which are even more stringent than originally imposed by the environmental protection guidelines.

For NYC's true water picture, the reservoirs in Westchester are mere window dressings to the larger system that forms an integral link in sustaining the city.

[DITC]

No way. Upstate is a nice place despite being economically depressed. As a whole, New York State has the most to offer in America.

Besides I love the fact that some hick in the Adirondacks is more part of NY than those annoying kids from Bergen County, NJ and the Hoboken/Jersey City newcomers. These people have such an inferiority complex with the whole "sixth borough" topic. Yonkers got the closest to being the 6th but that never materialized. Nobody is annexing NJ turf...you're not even New York State residents! You're Jersey!

[NJ Chutzpah]

You mean "annoying kids from the Northern half of Bergen County"

the southern part is quite like the outer boros

Of course NYC cannot succeed from upstate

It may be economically suppressed, but think out it

It is lots of labor, land, and resources NYC needs

[Futcha]

Originally Posted by welder

Wow, your LIFE really does REVOLVE around NYC in EVERYTHING! I've read many of your prior posts. EVERY MAJOR city in the US could probably say and claim the same things. I'm not going to waste the time by trying to crunch or look up stats. But I'm sure NYC recieves money from that state in some form.

In fact, I could have sworn when I worked up in buffalo, I heard them guys saying that NYC was a drain on the state. That ALL the resources went to NYC. Maybe these guys didn't know what they were talking about (dumb construction workers LOL). But doesn't the state pay for welfare, etc? And I'm sure back in the 70's the city was doing as well. This is the epitmy of 'NYC ELETIST' talk that I've ever heard.

So what you are saying is, basically you could care less about NY State. It's only NYC that concerns you and the rest of the state and people bring you and NYC's image down? I'm not from NY, so I personally could care less. But, I'm proud of my ENTIRE HOME STATE of Pa, and ALL it's contributions from the people, cities, and towns made there (ya, I even include Philly in that LOL).

Maybe you should grab a history book and look at some of the good things that the rest of the state has contributed, before bum rapping it. Could you live without 'Buffalo wings'? I mean you could, but would you want to? Niagra Falls is one of the '7 wonders of the world' ain't it? You don't want to be assosiated with that either? Don't kick ANY rust belt city's in the teeth. Ya, they're down (and some even out), but they were a major part of BUILDING AMERICA back in the day. Respect an embrace your history, don't bash it.

I'm not bashing it. I love Buffalo and Upstate New York as I've stated many times previously... But it's not like I'd have to go through US/Canadian Customs to get to get their if we did become two states.

No, I wouldn't want to live without Buffalo wings... But if me living with wings meant my area being more well-off, then yeah, I'll live without them. Niagara Falls, eh, the Canadians haev the better view. Our side is run-down and rusting other than the new Seneca casino. I will admit that our side is more like a park and nicer to walk around.

[Futcha]

We could take the Catskills with us. That solves our water problem. Electricity? I though there's a plant in NYC or something? I'm obviously not an electricity guru, but I doubt our electricity is powered by a waterfall that's about 400 or so miles from here.

[welder]

Originally Posted by FutureCop

We could take the Catskills with us. That solves our water problem. Electricity? I though there's a plant in NYC or something? I'm obviously not an electricity guru, but I doubt our electricity is powered by a waterfall that's about 400 or so miles from here.

You're right, you're not an electricity guru. Alot of power plants in western Pa. supply electricity to NY. One power plant in NYC? LOL That little thing could never supply NYC's power usage. It takes alot more than one power plant (especially a small one) to supply big cities and surrounding areas.

[Fred314X]

Politicians like to talk about disadvantages for the city if it should secede from the state. In fact, it's just about the opposite. For one thing, we wouldn't be tied down to legislators from Albany who routinely vote down measures benefiting the city. All representation would be our own. And for another, since New York City has been driving the state's economy for at least a decade, we'd be in better shape economically.

I think there are a lot of politicians who have some legitimate worries about the spectre of a separate New York City. For this reason alone, we ought to consider it! They don't care about us; why should we care about them?

[iztel]

I actually like upstate NY. Not to live but in the summer there plenty of nice places around Syracuse, Ithaca and Rochester to visit. I always go to the Irish festivals up there.