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Old 09-30-2008, 01:54 PM
 
8,752 posts, read 9,671,729 times
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My primary problem with the bailout plan is simple. A series of financial crises seemingly came out of nowhere (how was this unforseen exactly? We have LOTS of regulators so don't be fooled, and many were publicly traded companies so it SHOULD be clear as day), and the government, led by Paulson and then Bush stepped in, with dire warnings, scary predictions, and a threat to our national security and economy. Now where did I hear all this before...oh yeah...Iraq. The same scare tactics, urgency, and "don't question us we know what we are doing" attitude is being used yet again to railroad whatever they want. Instead of using the typical Bush smoke and mirrors/scare tactics to bring us onboard, why did he not sit down and discuss the bailout, in simple terms, with maybe 10 basic points about what it is, how it will work, and how it will help. But what did we get and are still getting? WE NEED TO DO THIS NOW, OUR ECONOMY IS TEETERING, WE WILL SUFFER GREATLY, and other such scary statements. AS a result, I am not really any clearer on this bail-out, so I am very confident 99% of us have absolutely no clue, except of course everyone keeps repeating the only thing we hear "We must pass this bill!" What really concerns me is that Bush and his cohorts are using the same misinform/scary tactics/smoke and mirrors policy that they used in Iraq..and we know how that turned out. So I ask again..why have they not educated us about the bailout, 10 basic points? Or shall we continue down the ridiculous road of "You are all gonna die if we don't pass this bill." "And oh yeah, don't question us about anything in it, how it will be handled, who will pay for it, or how it will affect you...Just remember you will all die if it is not passed. Thanks and God Bless America!" Lol.
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Old 09-30-2008, 02:02 PM
 
7,081 posts, read 24,769,702 times
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And you can thank Congressman Jose Serrano, from the Bronx, in part for that: he stated that he voted 'no' because he thought there were enough 'yes' votes. His concerrn is getting re-elected, nothing else. What this country needs is term limits to root out self-serving bureaucrats like this man, who has a government-guaranteed pension and health care for life and could apparently care less about his constituents. If he's your congressman, he needs to hear from you!

Guy: PLEASE, divide your posts into paragraphs. Looking at that monolithic writing is tiring and extremely difficult to read. Thanks.
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Old 09-30-2008, 02:13 PM
 
8,752 posts, read 9,671,729 times
Reputation: 4168
Hehe...unfortunately I tried to divide my posts into paragraphs but for some reason I can't do it. I know it sucks but at the moment I have not figured out why it is not accepting paragraphs...it always ends up bunching it all together once I click submit. But yes I agree with your assessment of Jose Serrano...he is the Hispanic equivalent of Rangel (which ain't good by the way)...he is a putz, a charlatan, a media monger, panderer, and everything else that is wrong with our government and elected officials, all wrapped up in one person! And by the way, he has heard from me personally, but he is usually too busy womanizing to listen.....one of his past-times.
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Old 09-30-2008, 02:57 PM
 
3,225 posts, read 5,423,639 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred314X View Post
So it seems like the bailout plan will either work...or it won't. I imagine we won't know until a decision is made, one way or the other. But what seems eminently likely is that the irresponsibility leading to the current situation will go unpunished. As it often does, when the rich and powerful are involved.

This is what bothers me the most, because I have a suspicion that no matter what emanates from Wall Street, the republic will go on. And the majority of us, who aren't rich and who don't play the stock market, will go on, as well. I'd just like to see a little justice thrown in, for a change.
Unfortunately, we are in such dire shape now that we've long gone past the phase of culpability. If we care to, we can dwell on that, but the cast of characters is pretty long and includes everyone and everything from banks, mortgage brokers, Fannie Mae, Salli Mae, real state agents, government regulators, Wall Street, state governments, lax credit standards, greed, corruption - and yes, the homeowners who borrowed beyond their financial abilities and now cry out for us who lived within our means to throw them a life line.

However, all the name calling and blaming won't do it now. There's too much at stake. This is no time for demagoguery, ideological polarisation, implacable adherence to economic laissez faire theories, or political partisanship. Our economy, jobs, savings, retirement, indeed, our futures are at stake.

Let's get a bill passed and after that we can apply 20/20 hindsight to try to be proactive for the future. I must remind however, that if recent history with tech stocks is any guide, we'll just go along our merry way after the smoke clears and the dust settles, and repeat our past mistakes.

I guess, it's the way we Americans are - no matter how much it hurts, we always pick up after our brothers and sisters, following the biblical teaching that we are our brothers' keepers.

It's too bad that our brothers don't respect us enough to prevent sending us all on a frenzied rescue mission.
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Old 09-30-2008, 03:15 PM
 
3,225 posts, read 5,423,639 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viralmd View Post
And you can thank Congressman Jose Serrano, from the Bronx, in part for that: he stated that he voted 'no' because he thought there were enough 'yes' votes. His concerrn is getting re-elected, nothing else. What this country needs is term limits to root out self-serving bureaucrats like this man, who has a government-guaranteed pension and health care for life and could apparently care less about his constituents. If he's your congressman, he needs to hear from you!

Guy: PLEASE, divide your posts into paragraphs. Looking at that monolithic writing is tiring and extremely difficult to read. Thanks.
1. As someone else menioned, your liveliness is stunning on the issue.

2. The paragraphing by the poster referenced would go a long way as the posts can many times be of interest. Henna may be helpful here.

3. I have my hands fulll trying to vote out Rangel, so can't handle Serrano who's not even in my district. Anyway, Rangel is enough of a challenge just trying to track him down to offer my protests. Just can never figure which of my tax-paid for units he's in at any given moment.
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Old 09-30-2008, 07:50 PM
 
185 posts, read 475,757 times
Reputation: 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viralmd View Post
And you can thank Congressman Jose Serrano, from the Bronx, in part for that: he stated that he voted 'no' because he thought there were enough 'yes' votes. His concerrn is getting re-elected, nothing else. What this country needs is term limits to root out self-serving bureaucrats like this man, who has a government-guaranteed pension and health care for life and could apparently care less about his constituents. If he's your congressman, he needs to hear from you!

Guy: PLEASE, divide your posts into paragraphs. Looking at that monolithic writing is tiring and extremely difficult to read. Thanks.
To set the record straight, I read the reason for his vote on his webpage, and it said nothing about hime voting NO because he thought there were enough yes votes. In fact anyone may read his response here: http://serrano.house.gov/PressRelease.aspx?NewsID=1596 (broken link)

But the headline pretty much sums it up well "SERRANO VOTES AGAINST BAILOUT CITING LACK OF FOCUS ON MORTGAGES, COMMON PEOPLE"

Seems logical to me, he votes against the mortgage crisis bill, because well simply.... No provisions addressed mortgages. He then describes in detail each and every reason why he voted no. As a representative in a society of democratic rule, his job is to represent his constituents, so if approximately 90% of your constituents are saying no, and there are serious academic reasons to consider no vote, than he is merely supporting democratic rule, that is unless unless you'd prefer autocratic rule?
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Old 09-30-2008, 07:53 PM
 
7,081 posts, read 24,769,702 times
Reputation: 3652
Quote:
Originally Posted by DesiArnez6 View Post
To set the record straight, I read the reason for his vote on his webpage, and it said nothing about hime voting NO because he thought there were enough yes votes. In fact anyone may read his response here: http://serrano.house.gov/PressRelease.aspx?NewsID=1596 (broken link)

But the headline pretty much sums it up well "SERRANO VOTES AGAINST BAILOUT CITING LACK OF FOCUS ON MORTGAGES, COMMON PEOPLE"

Seems logical to me, he votes against the mortgage crisis bill, because well simply.... No provisions addressed mortgages. He then describes in detail each and every reason why he voted no. As a representative in a society of democratic rule, his job is to represent his constituents, so if approximately 90% of your constituents are saying no, and there are serious academic reasons to consider no vote, than he is merely supporting democratic rule, that is unless unless you'd prefer autocratic rule?
He posted that because he said something different on CNN and he's trying to do damage control. I'm sure he had no idea his lame reason for voting 'no' would make it to the national press. I heard him say that. Self-serving and utterly unconcerned with the country - it's all about HIM.
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Old 09-30-2008, 08:56 PM
 
58 posts, read 86,235 times
Reputation: 14
No matter what, the bail out is going to get passed one way or the other.

As lots of people have said and for a million times - there is just too much at stake.

It depends whom are you are talking to - people who are 55 and home paid off with decent amount of money to survive say - 'who cares, let them burn. Bailout is cr ap. Let them learn a lesson'.

There are some others who are struggling and not just in US but world wide. Think what would happen if this does not go through. Just check LIBOR after the indication of the bill failure. Just check business confidence,cost of funds, lob losses, cash liquidity in the market and the list goes on.

For someone to say 'Let them learn from their mistakes' to vote NO to the plan would surely be voting without any concern at MACRO levels.

People who are struggling, their life would be further problems. Inflation, higher mortgages, uncertainty, jobs etc etc.

No one can change the way Wall Street culture has developed into blood sucking money making machine. What one can change is forward looking.....

We are not talking about America or just 700Bn here. The world financial system is at stake and it's pretty huge. ALl goverments other than US are in support of this. I suppose there are economists who print why not support but surely governments have their own research the back the plan - I know there are fools but when the times are tough, I think support should be shown...

My two cents worth...
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Old 09-30-2008, 08:58 PM
 
7,081 posts, read 24,769,702 times
Reputation: 3652
Quote:
Originally Posted by neilk View Post
It depends whom are you are talking to - people who are 55 and home paid off with decent amount of money to survive say - 'who cares, let them burn. Bailout is cr ap. Let them learn a lesson'.

...
This is absolutely NOT true!!! Everyone I know in that category has watched as our 401Ks lose value that will NEVER be made up in the time before retirement. The home, paid off, yes, but losing value rapidly, given the sinking real estate market. These are the people who actually ARE terrified.
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Old 09-30-2008, 09:32 PM
 
185 posts, read 475,757 times
Reputation: 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by SobroGuy View Post
Desi..this may be slightly off topic but you injected your personal life into this so I am compelled to comment. I understand that you have fallen on hard times, but your argument is that the government is paying your rent, they are giving you money for food, they are also giving you essentially lifetime medical care through Medicaid, you also receive free food from a food pantry, you recieve additional spending money from the government as well, and what you are saying is "Is this how the gov't treats you?" What exactly are you complaining about? That the government doesn't give you enough for the platinum cable package? That you don't have wireless internet? I don't believe for a second that you lost 30 pounds and are malnourished because you do not have food, the government isn't providing you sufficient food, or that you cannot get food. If in fact it is the case, it is due to your lack of research into what programs in NYC you qualify for...I would recommend spending whatever time it takes to learn about services and other hand-outs that are available to you. Although your story is sad, what I see is a profound sense of entitlement on your part, and not appreciation for having a FREE place to live for life in all likelihood, free food for life, free medical for life, and you don't have to lift a finger for any of it. Your basic needs are taken care of...you are entitled to more? I know so many people who work 50 hours a week in a low wage job, hard manual labor, that live in a rented room with nothing but a bed and bureau, they receive no free food, no food stamps, no medical care whatsoever, and the second they don't have money for rent they are on the streets. While you are sitting home, watching Heroes and Days of Our Lives, complaining about your miserable life, they are toiling away day in and out, and have not 1/4 of what you have. What you are complaining about is what alot of people would be fortunate to have in NYC. Sounds like you should change your attitude of entitlement to one of appreciation. I know I would be happy to have all those things guaranteed..I have to work for all the things you get for free.
I apologize If I now sound angry in this post as I also realize from behind the Internet Connection that you have no way of knowing who I am, So I will respond with facts and more detail, as obviously you would rather not believe what your government allows to happen to those who are poor right now.

Don't believe I'm malnutritioned?
Here is the code my one of my boxes of "Boost" I have 7 boxes of 24 count 8 oz Vanilla Cans right in front of me. Here is one, if youd like any other, feel free to ask.
Barcode:480759 Cust SKU:800029177
SKU: 004796 BOOST ENERGY INST VAN
Location: b1b13-01-2
Picticket Control Number 480759 BTCH:0000056331
D7 Lane 10
TO: Duane Reade #196 cust Num:23-092379
2939 3rd Ave
Bronx NY 10455-2601
D7-421-B10 H
--------- And then another larger barcode---
(00) 0 2387701 004680292 9

In fact here the big barcode from another box
(00) 0 2387701 004680293 6

All of which are prescription only cans labeled not nor retail
Bottom of one can 8078
5382CI
SEP 09
013
My current prescription total is for 450 cans including refills.

My wheelchair is an INVACARE Tracer EX, Made in Mexico Reg No OH11006

To be "Disabled" you must be able to prove that you were sick or will be for 12 consecutive months. I have only been housebound since last November, not to mention I must prove it with paper documentation, from more than 1 doctor. Don't believe me? Check it. To clarify, my mother is the one who has to do the pantry runs since right now I cant even walk that far. And she can barely make it on her crutches. She won't qualify till February (which will be 12 months), Workman's comp? Ask their Harlem office how long on average these companies drag out their cases.

Now because of Clinton, I must be employed to qualify for Food Stamps, so if I am NOT working and I haven't yet gotten disability, for 12 months I get $0 food stamps, Check that too. So my mom who is temporarily on Welfare to survive since she can barely walk after surgery, does qualify for food stamps, now ask them what the maximum benefit for 1 is, yep thats right $139 a month, thats is about $4.50 a day

Now when she was sent to the WeCare office (To evaluate whether you could work) she was also in a wheel chair. Do you know the hell the put you through? When they "escorted" her to the Welfare paid taxi ride home, the case assistant let go of her when she stood up thinking she was faking, well unable to walk, my mom fell down on the street bruised and crying and unable to stand up. The "helpful" and scared WeCare Assistant apologized with "oh i didn't know.." then got very silent. You must be there for hours, numerous appointments.

Visit a WeCare office and see how accessible these programs are. I hope you didn;t assume that just because the Soviet Union guaranteed utopia on paper meant they actually got it. What they really got was an hours wait in line for a roll of toilet paper. Apply and you will be amazed at what you are put through to apply as a qualifying individual, I dare you.

I don't have the strength for this, my arms cannot even get me out of my building. And I am too dizzy to travel. They also make you reevaluate your "disability" every 3 weeks in addition to checkup and paperwork appointments regardless of your doctors OR THEIR doctors decisions or statements that you are long term disabled. Yet Medicaid says I am disabled enough to qualify for Ambulette transportation, which most of the time I am even too week to use. My approval is for a full year. My carrier ? Colin Ambulette.

Clinton also put a 5 year limit on Federal Public Assistance anyways, so If I applied the same time as my mom, we'd both expire at the same time leaving us with no federal benefits in case of an emergency.

So once again I don't qualify, so check what is the current Welfare Benefit Maximum in NY for 1 person? $68.50 twice monthly, or... $1,644 a YEAR Check it yourself.

Check the food pantries here, where I do Food Bank For New York City Food Program Locator food bank for new york city,nyc, food program locator, assistance, communities, food pantries, soup kitchens, senior centers, direct services, links page, nonprofit, government agencies
And also check Zip 10456
See which one where open today (Tuesday) Call tomorrow if you like and ask why Tessalonia Baptist Church and Gospel Hill Baptist Church have run out of food, and then call Word of Life and ask why they didn't open either.

Now
Am I grateful for the apartment. I am NOT Grateful for the government allowing me to wake up hungry and worrying about food the FARTHEST thing from my mind is the government subsidizing Cable TV or buying me a cellphone. However in this bailout plan the caps on salaries for these bad CEO'S allows then to take home a salary of $400,000 maximum certainly enough for buy Premium cable and their one first rate cellphone. So you are worried about a disabled family of two "freeloading" on a luxurious budget of $1,644 a year, and this concerns you more than subsidizing 100% of an executives $400,000 a year salary and pension plan? Wrong priorities my friend

I'm sorry if it offends you but I AM ENTITLED to enough food to SURVIVE
And this apartment is MY RIGHT under Article XVII of the New York State Constitution solidified by the court case Callahan vs. Carey. If you are disturbed by my ENTITLEMENT to shelter , by all means change the law, or move to New Jersey. I should be grateful for my apartment? My right? I am but , your choice choice of words are wrong. Are you grateful for your right to vote or do you DEMAND it?

As for getting a REAL job, I do what I can within my physical capabilities, if that is not enough then sorry. But you seem do believe that this deserves punishment. As you can see by the long post, SURVIVAL is a job and navigating these programs , phone calls multiple appointments, renewals, dealing with so many agencies and bureaucracies, to SURVIVE is a full time job of which I am not paid for, unless you count MY share of $822 a YEAR or $15.81 a week.

Are you serious. You are complaining that I live a high lifestyle...on $15.81 a WEEK!

Considering that there are approximately 224,548,500 adults over 18 in the U.S Lets see, I alone cost you.... $822 a year cash, $834 a year in food and $1,230 a YEAR in rental subsidies to live in public housing. Thats a full total of $2,886 a YEAR , so divided by adult population, you pay, Calculator says .000012852 a year, um 1/1000th of a cent a year, and thats assuming we had a flat tax, our tax system is progressive, the wealthy pay more than you would assuming you are middle class. So would it be a fair assumption that you are agitated that you contribute under 1/2000th of a penny to my welfare a year? God forbid I asked you for a PENNY a year, A Full PENNY.

If this really concerned you so much, you would be MORE concerned to know that because the government doesn't help people like me adequately, you end up paying MORE. You paid $2000 a MONTH to a city shelter for 24 months for a total of $48,000 because there was not enough available housing in this city. And at that time I was healthier and working, studying, and still struggling. Now you have to also pay for 1,080 cans of Boost Shakes at what, a cost of $2,160 a year? Because I was denied adequate medical care for so long, you picked up the tab of nearly 10 ambulance trips before I was considered disabled enough for ambulette transportation. Thats what $3,500 dollars? Not to mention emergency rooms, AND being admitted in the Hospital 3 times since May with no diagnostic tests for a total of 16 days until anyone bothered to do any tests, to save money, that cost you thousands and thousands. And because I am just stagnant in my health, and not recuperating because of the lack of food, I will likely cost you much much more, In fact, my economic extension on payment of my $9,000 student loan is about to expire, and guess what.. I see a default in the future.

On that budget would YOU eat well? that alone is proof enough.
With all do respect, I check my facts, and I am about as honest as they come. And these honest struggling people deserve the bailout more than those on Wall St.

I apologize to everyone for this very long and personal post. I do feel that it relates to the topic at hand but on a personal level. Under normal circumstances I would not post this much at once.

Last edited by DesiArnez6; 09-30-2008 at 10:39 PM..
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