Pennsylvania: The Promised Land for the Poor? (Haverstraw, Spring Valley: appointed, houses)

[SobroGuy]

I personally know a substantially amount of people, almost all poor, that have moved to Pennsylvania over the last 5 years from the Bronx. And there are more that continue to go everyday...I hear about it from neighbors and friends. There are many that are going to Florida and Georgia/North Carolina, but by far the ones that I know are fleeing to Pennsylvania. Has anyone else noticed this trend?

[DAS]

Yes I have but it is not just the poor. It is the working middle class as well. They commute to the city everyday to work. The ones I know say the commute is exhausting but they are able to live better and their children are in better schools. People with teens that were worried about their children finishing high in the city are really pleased.

[scatman]

1. First, I'll speak from an upstate perspective, for I'm living with my wife in Rockland. Many folk are in upper Rockland, like Spring Valley and Haverstraw, due to 1. expensive housing in NYC and also the factory jobs in Haverstraw. I have a friend who lives in Orange county and commutes to NYC. He's an engineer, makin' bank! House is brand new, and I believe got it at a good rate. But his commute, as well as mine, is 2 hours! By the way, I still have my spot in Parkchester...ain't givin that up!

2. I know quite a few coworkers that are in Pennsylvania. The ones I know love it, while one couple I know came back to the city very disappointed.

I'll say this....the city, even recession-era, is still very expensive. Add to it the fact that the average Joe (not the plummer!) in NYC can't make a decent salary in the city, unless he/she either is on Wall Street, or been in civil service for a few minutes! So, many pack up and leave. They either leave for PA, where the housing is cheaper, or go south (where I saw listings in the Charlotte Observer for <$100K houses on 1/10 acre lots--I don't think that's recession prices, either!).

Also, take a ride on the Pescack Valley Line on Jersey Transit (Hoboken to Spring Valley). All the whites get off at all the stops (such as Montvale, Park Ridge, etc) and what's left of folk of color get off at the last stop, Spring Valley!

I am seeing a serious demographic shift to either excurban communities (Pennsylvania, North Rockland) or leaving the city alltogether.

[scatman]

Originally Posted by DAS

Yes I have but it is not just the poor. It is the working middle class as well. They commute to the city everyday to work. The ones I know say the commute is exhausting but they are able to live better and their children are in better schools. People with teens that were worried about their children finishing high in the city are really pleased.

I don't necessarily know about better schools. My wife is paying 11K in property taxes, all the while an administrative glitch made by my stepson's guidance counselor kept him in the 10th grade for 2 weeks into the school year (he should be in the 11th). With that amount of tax money, all your schools better be like Tech, Stuyvesant and Bronx Science!

It is nice and quiet, though!

[Viralmd]

There is also no state income tax on pension income in Pennsylvania...

[scatman]

Originally Posted by Viralmd

There is also no state income tax on pension income in Pennsylvania...

As someone said to me, the Poconos are supposed to be a vacation or retirement community, not a working community!

[Moderate Guy]

Originally Posted by scatman

1. First, I'll speak from an upstate perspective, for I'm living with my wife in Rockland. Many folk are in upper Rockland, like Spring Valley and Haverstraw, due to 1. expensive housing in NYC and also the factory jobs in Haverstraw. I have a friend who lives in Orange county and commutes to NYC. He's an engineer, makin' bank! House is brand new, and I believe got it at a good rate. But his commute, as well as mine, is 2 hours! By the way, I still have my spot in Parkchester...ain't givin that up!

2. I know quite a few coworkers that are in Pennsylvania. The ones I know love it, while one couple I know came back to the city very disappointed.

I'll say this....the city, even recession-era, is still very expensive. Add to it the fact that the average Joe (not the plummer!) in NYC can't make a decent salary in the city, unless he/she either is on Wall Street, or been in civil service for a few minutes! So, many pack up and leave. They either leave for PA, where the housing is cheaper, or go south (where I saw listings in the Charlotte Observer for <$100K houses on 1/10 acre lots--I don't think that's recession prices, either!).

Also, take a ride on the Pescack Valley Line on Jersey Transit (Hoboken to Spring Valley). All the whites get off at all the stops (such as Montvale, Park Ridge, etc) and what's left of folk of color get off at the last stop, Spring Valley!

I am seeing a serious demographic shift to either excurban communities (Pennsylvania, North Rockland) or leaving the city alltogether.

Indeed. Many people still don't realize the magnitude of the national/NYC housing crisis that hit us in the past 5-7 years. When you have a city with an average income of 45k and average home prices of 9-10 times that, a crisis was inevitable. Result : people fleeing to Pennsylvania, Tennessee, the Carolinas, other southern states - not to retire but to be able to afford to own a home.

[DAS]

Originally Posted by scatman

I know necessarily know about better schools. My wife is paying 11K in property taxes, all the while an administrative glitch made by my stepson's guidance counselor kept him in the 10th grade for 2 weeks into the school year (he should be in the 11th). With that amount of tax money, all your schools better be like Tech, Stuyvesant and Bronx Science!

It is nice and quiet, though!

For the people I know, their children were being harassed by others in gangs and they didn't want to attend school anymore. They were in danger of dropping out. For them to be in a healthier atmosphere was the most important thing.

[scatman]

Originally Posted by DAS

For the people I know, their children were being harassed by others in gangs and they didn't want to attend school anymore. They were in danger of dropping out. For them to be in a healthier atmosphere was the most important thing.

True.

At the same time my stepson doesn't take lunch, due to the gangs taking over the lunchroom hour. And that's in the suburbs!

Oh, don't get me wrong, his school isn't bad (despite the guidance counselor and gangs at lunch). And overall, Rockland schools are pretty good. But don't think there aren't issues in Rockland's schools, either!

[tpk-nyc]

I know a couple of people who commute into the city from Pennsylvania every day for comparatively low-end jobs (around $50 to $70 thousand a year). They make more in the city than they would in Allentown, but time is money, too, and spending that much time on a bus doesn't seem worth it to me. What's the point of having a large house if you're never there?