Conflicting Info On Reasonable Income for Manhattan (taxes, health)

[neilk]

I am sorry - I am not in US but been reading this thread, so feel free to ignore my comment.

I have been thinking - if OP earns 360k pre tax in Houston, surely he can travel up east to check it out for himself ?

I mean it's so subjective. There are plenty of calculators on the web doing a calculation on COL between 2 cities.

Dining every day 7 days a week may be my preference but not everyones. Driving a BMW may be luxury for one but not for another.

Book some flights, head out & find out things like COL, schools, areas, how the flats are, are they spacious, can I live here etc etc etc.

Sorry if what I mention has been posted already - I got to I think page 3 or 4 on this thread and jumped to the last to post mine!!
Thanks.

[crisp444]

Originally Posted by zdg

Which leads me to the next question...what is the best way to find the right place? We've looked at every NYC apt site. We've gone thru the NYT RE class ads. Should we get a broker? If so, how do you find one that's not a total fraud? If not, what's the best way? Is the fee-broker thing a total rip and something only a redneck tourist would do or is that standard?

We're looking for something in the W70s because that seems to feed to the better PS's in case we can't get into a decent private school. Is that sort of limitation going to really kill us on a search?

Again, if I'm out of line, let me know. I'm in no way trying to be that guy who moves to NY to change it. I'm just trying to figure out what questions to ask before we get up there next month to start scouting apts.

By the way, a thousand thanks again to everyone who has contributed to this thread. I have no idea how people moved to a new city before the internet.

I would most certainly recommend a broker. Sure you pay the broker 10-15% of a year's rent to assist you in your search, but I would say that it is worth it. I would expand your search beyond the West 70's because that will be very limiting. There are VERY well-regarded public elementary schools in the Upper East Side, Upper West Side, Tribeca/Battery Park City, and even Murray Hill / Kips Bay. When you look at an apartment, find out its corresponding public elementary school and look to greatschools.net for information on socioeconomic demographics, test scores, and special programs/activities the school offers.

By the way, all of the areas I mentioned that are known for good elementary schools have a lot of families. Murray Hill / Kips Bay seems like it is more singles and younger married couples than families but nevertheless it is a nice area. The other neighborhoods are VERY popular with upper-income families.

[rs1]

as has been stated, working with brokers is fairly standard, not just something newcomers get suckered into. i've always felt that the broker-fee vs. no-fee relationship is fairly efficient, i.e., no-fee apartments usually have rents somewhat higher than broker fee apts so you end up paying more over the life of the lease. in fact, my experience with apartments in manhattan was that if you plan to stay somewhere for at least two years, you're likely better off paying a brokers fee rather than the slightly higher "no-fee" rent. As for fees, I've paid less than one month's rent as a fee (something like 8%), so you should shoot for not more than 10%, especially now in a slower market.

[zdg]

Originally Posted by rs1

as has been stated, working with brokers is fairly standard, not just something newcomers get suckered into. i've always felt that the broker-fee vs. no-fee relationship is fairly efficient, i.e., no-fee apartments usually have rents somewhat higher than broker fee apts so you end up paying more over the life of the lease. in fact, my experience with apartments in manhattan was that if you plan to stay somewhere for at least two years, you're likely better off paying a brokers fee rather than the slightly higher "no-fee" rent. As for fees, I've paid less than one month's rent as a fee (something like 8%), so you should shoot for not more than 10%, especially now in a slower market.

Excellent; very much appreciated.

The part I bolded above brings up another question.

We've read everywhere that landlords in NY have a magic number of 40x one month's rent in annual income in order to qualify for that unit. Is that still the case even in housing markets like this one? Reason I ask is, we've found a couple places that would be 38x and one that was 35x. Is that totally made-up 40x strict all the time, or is it possible to rent a place in NYC below that?

Totally new subject: my health insurance company quoted me this morning a premium increase on my family's health insurance of (no joke) 450% by moving from TX to NYC. Are families in NYC actually spending $3,000/mo on health insurance? Is that right? If so, how is that possible?

[mad07]

The 40x is not a hard and fast rule. It depends on the landlord/management company. I lived in a luxury building in the Flatiron district and they were pretty lax with the requirements. Other places are HUGE sticklers and sometimes will not let you include your bonus (or whatever incentive payments you may be getting).

I don't know how much health insurance is when you go it alone (i.e. with no corporate backing) but speaking from the corporate side, it is probably 1/10th that amount. As an individual, I think I paid something like 60-70 bucks/month (includes health, dental, vision).

[Fred314X]

The major problem with threads like this is that word, reasonable. What one person considers reasonable frightens someone else. If you can manage it, and it's a move you want to make, then you shouldn't spend too much time crunching numbers.

[zdg]

Originally Posted by mad07

The 40x is not a hard and fast rule. It depends on the landlord/management company. I lived in a luxury building in the Flatiron district and they were pretty lax with the requirements. Other places are HUGE sticklers and sometimes will not let you include your bonus (or whatever incentive payments you may be getting).

Well, that's good to hear. Here's a question, though...as the owner of my own business, I usually "only" pay myself about $150,000/yr and then pay myself the rest in pass-through income as the sole shareholder of an s-corp. Do they count THAT as income or do they count that as bonus (which is most certainly is not)? Reason I ask is...if I need to show $300,000 in actual salaried pay, I need to issue myself an insane December paycheck and should know that now.

I don't know how much health insurance is when you go it alone (i.e. with no corporate backing) but speaking from the corporate side, it is probably 1/10th that amount. As an individual, I think I paid something like 60-70 bucks/month (includes health, dental, vision).

Yeah, we pay about $615/mo here in Texas for husband/wife/daughter for a PPO and a $2,000 deductable. Exact same company (AETNA) told me there is no PPO up there and that the cheapest option is an HMO with no deductable at $3100/mo or so. I just assumed I'm missing something because I just don't see how someone making, say, $80,000/yr could possibly afford that health insurance and the premium wasn't based on income.

[bmwguydc]

Originally Posted by zdg

Well, that's good to hear. Here's a question, though...as the owner of my own business, I usually "only" pay myself about $150,000/yr and then pay myself the rest in pass-through income as the sole shareholder of an s-corp. Do they count THAT as income or do they count that as bonus (which is most certainly is not)? Reason I ask is...if I need to show $300,000 in actual salaried pay, I need to issue myself an insane December paycheck and should know that now.

Yeah, we pay about $615/mo here in Texas for husband/wife/daughter for a PPO and a $2,000 deductable. Exact same company (AETNA) told me there is no PPO up there and that the cheapest option is an HMO with no deductable at $3100/mo or so. I just assumed I'm missing something because I just don't see how someone making, say, $80,000/yr could possibly afford that health insurance and the premium wasn't based on income.

You can also have your CPA draft a financial statement that indicates your income and the nature of your S-corp and the means through which you get the income, and how it has been proven for the last few years, etc. This will generally suffice for even the most finicky of buildings as I know a couple of people who rent and have their own S-corps, LLCs, and that's how they are able to prove the real income as opposed to the salary. It's generally not considered a bonus since you're the sole owner/decision maker.

That quote for health insurance does seem high, but actually not too excessive, since you're getting a quote for three people in NYC. It's certainly toward the higher end, but other companies might have a less expensive plan with similar benefits, perhaps Empire Blue Cross/Blue Shield or Atlantis or Oxford might have something to offer. Atlantis and Oxford do have plans for the self-employed, but I can certainly understand wanting to keep the coverage that you have with a company that you know.

[zdg]

Originally Posted by bmwguydc

You can also have your CPA draft a financial statement that indicates your income and the nature of your S-corp and the means through which you get the income, and how it has been proven for the last few years, etc. This will generally suffice for even the most finicky of buildings as I know a couple of people who rent and have their own S-corps, LLCs, and that's how they are able to prove the real income as opposed to the salary. It's generally not considered a bonus since you're the sole owner/decision maker.

Well, crap. I AM my CPA. I can't imagine they'll accept a letter from me on my behalf.

[Viralmd]

Originally Posted by zdg

Well, crap. I AM my CPA. I can't imagine they'll accept a letter from me on my behalf.

Hmmmm...highly unlikely. But nice try.