Cops shoot and Kill 2 Brothers (Hope: violent crime, home, neighborhood)

[SobroGuy]

The story did not sound strange..it was very straightforward and it might be something as easy as the kids were shooting, then turned around to run, and the cops immediately shot back as soon as the kids stopped shooting subsequently hitting them in the back. Or it could be something else...I am not passing judgement...just want to know what actually happened.

[Gardier]

I don't think the cops intentionally meant to kill the boys. If they were in police custody and had been killed, that's different. If they were shot in the back they must have been running. No one shoots at people then just turn around and stand there when they see the cops, most people run when they see the cops. The cops could have been trying to wound the boys so that they did not get away with the shooting. It's got to be hard to shoot someone who is running, at night in the leg or arm with frantic bystanders around. We can't forget that these guys were armed and shooting at people. If they were unarmed boys and had been shot and killed that's one thing. These guys were actually shooting at people, in a public place.

[Jrock247]

If I was at a club and two jerkoffs starts popping off shots in the air, I would hope that the cops put them down.

Their mother deserves the press coverage so all her neighbors now how horrible of a failure she was as a parent.

[DesiArnez6]

WOW, Amazing that so many are bashing the mother here. Geez, her kids are just killed, and it seems there is almost NO compassion.

Can we not look at this case objectively.

First of all, I see nothing in ANY news articles to justify earlier posts that the mom is some "drug addict" or that some "baby daddy" is involved, or that her sons are "thugs" and dangerous, wreckless, etc.

Look at the facts, as Mayor Bloomberg says we don't yet know ALL that happened here.

Perhaps someone should watch the 1957 Movie "12 Angry Men" Before passing Judgment
12 Angry Men (1957)
12 Angry Men - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Think, so far the Cops stated, that Dwayne David and Kayshawn Forde were at the scene, when David opened fire and charged at the cops after a nightclub brawl

Evidence has already conflicted with NYPD statements as both brothers were shot in the BACK.
If I were a Juror, I would have an OBLIGATION to question the validity of the Cop's statements seeing as that part of the testimony had already been shown to be false.

IF the mother had filed statements that were FALSE, would not ALL of any related testimony then be considered QUESTIONABLE. Why yes indeed, she would now be a questionable witness.

So I would ADD that since the NYPD were proven false, that the kids were running away, NOT charging at them forward, I MUST now question whether or not those two young men were the ACTUAL Shooters, or NOT. I Have NOT seen ANY other Independent witnesses verifying if indeed these two young men were the shooters. NOR did forensic evidence, gun powder residue etc. confirm such.

The Right to Bear Arms is CONSTITUTIONALLY Protected, and there was NO statement so far that the guns in possession were illegally carried. As they were both Adults, they have every RIGHT to goto the "Club". Going to a "Club" in itself is NOT illegal and does NOT justify murder by the NYPD.

Anyone who has been at a shooting, (which I have, they happen in this neighborhood far too often), knows that people RUN. Why? To not get shot. People also know that in these neighborhoods, MANY carry guns. At these "clubs" there are hard working people who Party hard, and sometimes there are "thugs" mixed in. It is VERY easy in these settings for the two to get mixed up in the same setting. If I were shot in my neighborhood, would it be deserved?

I almost got shot in front of a club on the way back home from the local supermarket a few years back. I literally had to run as fast as I could with my shopping cart hoping not to spill the groceries. Turns out two rival gangs were having a feud over a shooting the previous week. IT was evening, and still daylight. Yet, many here seem to imply that had I been legally armed with a registered gun and permit, that somehow the NYPD would be justified to shoot me in the back for "fleeing the scene" Even if id NEVER been INSIDE the Club, never shot the gun, and was only getting groceries. And that my mom would also deserve to weep because it was "her fault" her son walked to the grocery store. Please, Get real.

I would sincerely hope these kids would be judged on FACTS, NOT their skin color, poverty, or the fact that they live in the "ghetto". I live in the "ghetto" and DEMAND the SAME Justice given to those in the suburbs. NYPD must prove their case, pure and simple. And when they are caught lying, their burden is even tougher.

Also note that both of these young men held jobs, ONE had TWO Jobs, AND were saving there money to buy their mom a house. NOW I ask, how many selfish "thugs" who are badly raised, work 2 Jobs to buy their MOM a HOUSE? Sounds like the MOM actually did something right. They were NOT in prison, but were instead HARD workers, who took care of their mother. How many children buy their mother a house?

THese kids may not be "perfect", but there is NOT yet proof that they "broke the law". ONLY questionable partially disproved and biased testimony from the NYPD itself. The ONLY one so far that has jeopardized their credibility is the NYPD. Their testimony has been scientifically proven to be False. THere are NO independent witnesses or video to support their testimony. THere is ENORMOUS incentive and motive out of self interest and avoidance of discipline for the NYPD to make up ANY of these details.

It is ALSO, interesting how many want think that the mother should Suffer??? Why? She did NOT carry a gun. Did NOTHING Illegal, wasn't at the "CLUB". So still NO sympathy?

Sorry, I am not convinced that the NYPD is telling ANY truth since their statements in this case have been SERIOUSLY Questioned by MEdical Evidence, their lack of reference to forensics, and lack of independent witnesses and testimony.

(But go ahead, keep up the subtle racism and baseless accusations, "baby mama" "drug addict" "bad parent who should be ashamed of herself") If I see any credible evidence to support any of these accusations, then fine. But for now, it just seems like a bunch of very subtle racist and or classist garbage. Seems to me the mom did something RIGHT. THey took care of family, bought her a house and worked 2 jobs. "Gangbanging thugs" don't usually show that much responsibility.

[SobroGuy]

Desi I udnerstand what youa are saying, and I had the same question about the whole being shot in the back vs charging forward. So only time will tell, but when you throw in the nonsense of "constitutional right to carry a gun", the kids had 2 jobs, saving their money to buy their mom a house, etc,...as this is all smoke and mirrors. The consitutional right to carry a gun does not = a right to go on a shooting spree, having 15 jobs does not make you a good person...it means you need money like everyone else, and saving money to buy your mom a house does not make you a good person or unlikely to shoot someone. So if you want to stick with facts and not assumptions lets do that. There was a shooting spree, the public was at risk, the thugs were shooting at cops, and the cops shot back to protect themselves and the public. Period. The cops are contending these kids were the ones shooting, and based on the currently available information, I absolutely believe them, and quite honestly, in the ensuing chaos, gunfire, and mayhem, they were FORCED to take action, and subsequently saved lives by stopping the gunfire and killing these kids. Sure they should investigate, but in this case, I don't second guess them, they had to make the split second decision and it probably saved MANY lives, including theirs and the public. And that is the bottom line...you can spend your time alleging racism, but racism was not shooting at people and cops, those kids were.

[Moderate Guy]

Originally Posted by SobroGuy

Desi I udnerstand what youa are saying, and I had the same question about the whole being shot in the back vs charging forward. So only time will tell, but when you throw in the nonsense of "constitutional right to carry a gun", the kids had 2 jobs, saving their money to buy their mom a house, etc,...as this is all smoke and mirrors. The consitutional right to carry a gun does not = a right to go on a shooting spree, having 15 jobs does not make you a good person...it means you need money like everyone else, and saving money to buy your mom a house does not make you a good person or unlikely to shoot someone. So if you want to stick with facts and not assumptions lets do that. There was a shooting spree, the public was at risk, the thugs were shooting at cops, and the cops shot back to protect themselves and the public. Period. The cops are contending these kids were the ones shooting, and based on the currently available information, I absolutely believe them, and quite honestly, in the ensuing chaos, gunfire, and mayhem, they were FORCED to take action, and subsequently saved lives by stopping the gunfire and killing these kids. Sure they should investigate, but in this case, I don't second guess them, they had to make the split second decision and it probably saved MANY lives, including theirs and the public. And that is the bottom line...you can spend your time alleging racism, but racism was not shooting at people and cops, those kids were.

If you don't mind a compliment from a non-propertied individual I must say that the above post is well put.

[DesiArnez6]

Originally Posted by SobroGuy

Desi I udnerstand what youa are saying, and I had the same question about the whole being shot in the back vs charging forward. So only time will tell, but when you throw in the nonsense of "constitutional right to carry a gun", the kids had 2 jobs, saving their money to buy their mom a house, etc,...as this is all smoke and mirrors. The consitutional right to carry a gun does not = a right to go on a shooting spree, having 15 jobs does not make you a good person...it means you need money like everyone else, and saving money to buy your mom a house does not make you a good person or unlikely to shoot someone. So if you want to stick with facts and not assumptions lets do that. There was a shooting spree, the public was at risk, the thugs were shooting at cops, and the cops shot back to protect themselves and the public. Period. The cops are contending these kids were the ones shooting, and based on the currently available information, I absolutely believe them, and quite honestly, in the ensuing chaos, gunfire, and mayhem, they were FORCED to take action, and subsequently saved lives by stopping the gunfire and killing these kids. Sure they should investigate, but in this case, I don't second guess them, they had to make the split second decision and it probably saved MANY lives, including theirs and the public. And that is the bottom line...you can spend your time alleging racism, but racism was not shooting at people and cops, those kids were.

I would absolutely agree with you, IF these kids went on a shooting spree. I guess it just comes to this. You believe the Cops story. I don't believe th cops story. If they were willing to lie about being charged at, than I believe they were willing also to lie about who DID the shooting spree.

A dear relative of mine was falsely accused of attempting to STAB a cop. The cop actually stole a knife from the house, and tried to puncture his bullet proof vest, that is until a neighbor of ours that worked for the government SAW the COP planting evidence, and that was basically the end of that. It does happen, and with disturbing frequency (If you know any cops, they can tell you, off the record ofcourse )

Because they are a COP doesn't make their story anymore credible. They are humans just like you and me, and are equally capable of lying.

As soon as the HARD forensics evidence and independent witnesses come out to concur with the official NYPD story, I WILL support those cops' actions.

Till then, I base my view on who's been caught lying, and the score on that so far is Mother: 0 NYPD: 1

[SobroGuy]

Well we don't know that they are lieing about being charged at. It might have been as simple as they WERE being charged at and fired upon, and the firing stopped for 2 seconds as the thugs turned around to run or whatever, and the cops immediately returned fire and shot them in the back. So they charged forward and were shooting, then the cops returned fire when they stopped shooting and ran. Simple and still justified..but again.w.e don't know. I agree that because they are a cop does not make them credible, honest, etc...and I have discussed this in several prior threads. However, considering that there WAS a shooting spree, the Public was in IMMEDIATE danger, the cops WERE being fired upon, and there could have been MASSIVE fatalities, the cops took action, shot back, killed these kids, and nuetralized the situation and saved many lives...all with split second decisions. And what happened after these specific kids were killed? The shootings stopped! If they were not the ones shooting, wouldn't have the shooters just kept shooting as they had been? Just another something to think about..agian....we dont know. But considering all these circumstances, I believe the cops did what they had to do to save themselves and the many people around...and their actions stopped the shooting. Period.

[arangoa79]

Hate to say this but I feel no remourse for any thug getting killed. In my opinion the punishment should fit the crime, you try to kill someone you should be killed. The world is a better place without these losers. Let see how long it takes for the mother to file a wrongfull death suit and for Al Sharpten to start screaming for justice.

[LightningMcQueen]

Originally Posted by arangoa79

Hate to say this but I feel no remourse for any thug getting killed. In my opinion the punishment should fit the crime, you try to kill someone you should be killed. The world is a better place without these losers. Let see how long it takes for the mother to file a wrongfull death suit and for Al Sharpten to start screaming for justice.

Agreed with the above and the others who expressed similar sentiments. The only thing that would make me change my mind is if it is proven that these boys weren't the shooters and the police killed two guys that just happened to be running away because of the shooting.

If they were the ones shooting into the crowd, and they were shooting up until the final moments when they were shot, who cares if they were shot in the back. It's 2 less idiots with guns on the streets.