South Bronx continues its upswing (New York, Mount Hope: sale, rentals, low crime)

[NooYowkur81]

Originally Posted by NYCwoman

A) My posts when replying to Supermario are, I admit, a bit faciscious NooYowkur81. I am only responding to his prior posts (that he is "worried" about white woman coming innocently into the Bronx) that make me crazy!!! I am a white, middle class female supporting all the great stuff going on in The Bronx and have debated (time and time again) on this thread the Supermario "types" who want to keep newbies (white and otherwise) out of the Bronx. It is getting really tiresome...I walk around taking photos and talking to Bronxites nearly every weekend and have never had an ounce of trouble (despite SM's contention that had I spent as much time in the South Bronx as I claim to have had, I would necessarily have been a victim of crime). Please do not think that I am seriously saying that white women or men will have any problems in the Bronx if they exercise the usual NYC caution and awareness...

B) I will post re: the various art scenes going on in the South Bronx (mostly Mott Haven) tomorrow....

Night!

I was making more of a general response to add to the point you were making. I wasn't saying you were saying that. No worries.

[NooYowkur81]

Originally Posted by Andysocks

@NYer

As a really pastey (albeit half-PR) guy who has never been scared to venture into black neighborhoods (then again, I grew up near a military housing complex on LI so most of my friends were black in grade school), it boggles my mind how scared a lot of white people are of black neighborhoods. sometimes I get an odd look, but it's probably mostly because all other white people avoid the neighborhood so much I stick out like... oh, I dunno, a green hat with an orange bill.

On the other hand, my girlfriend is Puerto Rican, looks it, and completely refuses to enter a black or hispanic 'hood, even if I'm with her. I've gotten into a million arguments about it (mostly when I'm in the mood to go to the beach, since that would require taking the bus to Jamaica station) but she always finds a way to say something to make me throw up my hands and give up. I don't think she's ever been south of Hillside on this side of the city line.

A lot of PR's look no different than Italians, Jews, or Irish. Throw them in a White neighborhood minus the accent, street tude, and the hood apparel and most wouldn't know the difference.

But getting back on topic, if people are scared then I wouldn't recommend they go into hood areas. Being scared tends to draw the type of attention you don't want to draw.

[SobroGuy]

Wow I sure missed alot here! A few of my comments: It is actually the short commute to Manhattan as well as the extreme affodability that are the biggest draws for the neighborhood. Anyone who thinks that "nobody is moving to Mott Haven" or the South Bronx for that matter clearly has never been there in the last 20 years, or even the last 2 years. They are building "green" co-ops and condos and they are all selling. They continue to create massive retail like the one at the Gateway Center, the Melrose Commons redevelopment area, and now the possible Mall at the Hub (to include a 14 screen movie theater, 20,000SF supermarket, commercial/office space, and co-ops). They are also in the midst of building 100 brand new condos off Willis Ave and Bruckner (right off the bridge).

[DesiArnez6]

Well, the South Bronx LOOKS much better than it used to. But I wonder if anyone else notices, that at the same time these beautiful new buildings and apartments are going up everywhere, and all those abandoned buildings are being torn down or renovated..... Did anyone notice that with all the NEW People, IT seem to be getting more dangerous?

Before this area used to be ugly, but seem relatively safe. Now it looks nicer. New apartments, but much more dangerous than before.

[SobroGuy]

You ask WHY would anyone move to Mott Haven, Concourse, Melrose? To have a short commute to the city, to live in the most affordable place in the city, to live in an extreme urban/gritty environment that remains untouched from the "evil gentrifyers", to immerse yourself in a different side of life that people don't understand/only read about, to make a real difference in the lives of people and a community, to have the ability to remake the area into whatever it is you want, to live around "real" people, to not have to worry about keeping up with the "Jones's" (maybe the Rivera's though).

[Moderate Guy]

Originally Posted by DesiArnez6

Well, the South Bronx LOOKS much better than it used to. But I wonder if anyone else notices, that at the same time these beautiful new buildings and apartments are going up everywhere, and all those abandoned buildings are being torn down or renovated..... Did anyone notice that with all the NEW People, IT seem to be getting more dangerous?

Before this area used to be ugly, but seem relatively safe. Now it looks nicer. New apartments, but much more dangerous than before.

I guess it's a tradeoff between beauty and safety? Perhaps one can have semi-beauty and semi-safe as a compromise?

[NooYowkur81]

Originally Posted by SobroGuy

Wow I sure missed alot here! A few of my comments: It is actually the short commute to Manhattan as well as the extreme affodability that are the biggest draws for the neighborhood. Anyone who thinks that "nobody is moving to Mott Haven" or the South Bronx for that matter clearly has never been there in the last 20 years, or even the last 2 years. They are building "green" co-ops and condos and they are all selling. They continue to create massive retail like the one at the Gateway Center, the Melrose Commons redevelopment area, and now the possible Mall at the Hub (to include a 14 screen movie theater, 20,000SF supermarket, commercial/office space, and co-ops). They are also in the midst of building 100 brand new condos off Willis Ave and Bruckner (right off the bridge).

Are they really trying to build a mall? I thought malls were kinda looked down upon these days. They are seen as bad investments by a lot of developers now.

[SobroGuy]

Is it for everyone? Heck no! Does it still suffer from a variety of social ills..sure does! But the area is changing dramatically, it is the cradle of the green movement in this city, the very active community groups and city are recreating a new purpose for the area: as the home for the working/middle class that makes the city go round. The investments have not stopped, the city and community are moving forward with the changes and it is having dramatic effects. If you are waiting until the area becomes "Williamsburg" or something similar...my question to you is..why wait? Move to Williamsburg! The area will no doubt always retain its grittiness, which today is part of the APPEAL, and part of why I and many others like it. These areas are improving but still remaining true to their ethnic flavor and becoming more working/middle class, with the amenities and services to support that growing population. It is not for everyone, but for many it is becoming a more appealing option.

[DesiArnez6]

Originally Posted by NooYowkur81

Plus a lot of White people need to stop believing they are more likely to be victims of crime simply because they are White. I'm starting to get a little tired of the I'm white and I'm scared to move into this neighborhood threads If you are a young Black or Hispanic male your chances of being killed or being a victim of a crime are much higher in this city.

Unfortunately, there are (often wrong) stereotypes out there based on race. BUT Ive seen criminals do this MAANY times with white people. They see a white person and say to themselves ... OOOH white person = money and lost

In the Dominican Republic, I looked white and was EXTEREMELY Poor, yet I was followed ALL the time by criminals (who thought I didn't speak Spanish) Outright saying to each other to follow me and try to rob, because i was probably a rich whitey. IT literally happened up to 3 times a day sometimes, VERY Tiring. (since I lived in sketchy areas, I was even more of a target) I knew friends of mine that were Haitian that had family that were doctors or VERY wealthy businessman with foreign cars) but could walk ANYWHERE, because criminals just assumed that a Haitian would be broke and likely not have anymore than 2 pesos in his pocket (34pesos is like a US Dollar).

Same with prices. He could get ANYTHING Cheap because he was Haitian. All he had to do was just make his accent a bit thicker, and he got things cheap. Me? people would ALWAYS give me the tourist price. Sometimes double or triple the price for batteries at local store, or double or triple the normal taxi fare around town. I ALWAYS had to negotiate HARD, and almost ARGUE forcefully for a fair price. Because I looked white to some

I gotta say, I do think that white people are more of a target here too in Morrisania, The Bronx, unless you are hispanic looking, or really dress down or something. Maybe Mott Haven has changed. I know atleast that in Morrisania, white people get double triple takes, and stares. Since Ive been here, I've only seen a few white people, the last five years. Each was pretty sketchy looking, one was obviously a prostitute. White people just haven't made it to Morrisania. Sadly here they ARE an obvious target. ITs not right, but its obvious.

As politically incorrect as it may sound. Being White in Morrisania, is like being Black in rural South Carolina. You can make the best of it. You'll probably be fine. But the tension is often felt, there are crazy racists that do make their threats with uncomfortable frequency. And you generally don't fit in. BUT despite all that you can still watch your back, look tough, dress down a bit, and be pretty genuinely happy and make enough friends to feel comfortable.

[SobroGuy]

Desi...the FACT is the area is SAFER today than it has been for the past 40+ years, thanks in part to the changes that have occured. The area still remains at record low crime rates, and there is no sign of that changing yet..long term trends are decidely DOWN for crime. Maybe you FEEL that it is more dangerous for some reason, but it is actually becoming MUCH safer. The new buildings that are going up, renovated or new rentals, are filled with people who are strictly screened by the city and meet maximum AND minimum income requirements (i.e. low/working/middle class people). The new subsidized homes for sale have income max and minimums as well, and of course the free market rentals and sales do whatever they want.