U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > New York > New York City
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 10-31-2008, 02:01 PM
 
Location: Queens
536 posts, read 2,011,889 times
Reputation: 166

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miles View Post
And the argument that guns can lead to more family incidents, etc., loses luster when one considers that a kitchen knife or pair of scissors will do just as well for an irate spouse in a violent rage bent on murdering a spouse or family member.
I'd say guns are much easier. No direct contact between the killer and the victim--close your eyes, look away, pull the trigger... gone. On the other hand, with a knife, you get feedback. And that might trigger remorse in someone... who knows. I don't plan on killing anyone in a violent rage anytime soon, but I think it's common sense that a gun would make murder a lot easier psychologically to carry out.

I'd assume there are much fewer innocent bystanders with knives, too.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 10-31-2008, 02:06 PM
 
Location: USA
5,408 posts, read 4,760,348 times
Reputation: 3613
Quote:
Originally Posted by NooYowkur81 View Post
The guns that were used were more than likely bought in a state with more lax gun control laws...
All states require criminal background checks for any gun purchase. Most guns used in crime have been stolen. They are one of the most sought after things in a home or business robbery as they can bring big dollars on the street when sold to criminals.

Bottom line, by definition criminals don't follow laws. Gun laws only effect those that are law abiding. We already have many restrictions on gun ownership and carry which vary state by state, but in any event if you have any kind of criminal record you can not legally buy a firearm.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-31-2008, 10:37 PM
 
373 posts, read 1,276,061 times
Reputation: 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miles View Post
Solution: Since we are unable to outlaw gun ownership NATIONALLY, let's even the playing field, give everyone - not just the big shots - a chance to protect their lives and property and that of their loved ones. How can we allow bigwigs to protect themselves and the average Joe can't? Are our rights predicated on the size of our wealth? Isn't our smaller property perhaps more important for our survival than that of the tycoons losing a million or two and whose gun rights are obviously premised on the size of their estates and their connections?

Don't be preoccupied with improper use of firarms, etc. We'll train everyone who gets a permit as a prerequisite before granting a license. And the argument that guns can lead to more family incidents, etc., loses luster when one considers that a kitchen knife or pair of scissors will do just as well for an irate spouse in a violent rage bent on murdering a spouse or family member. But a legally permitted firearm can truly help repel unlawful intruders and criminals who have the advantage over our hapless citizenry. There isn't a cop out there for everyone of us. Sometimes, we just have to defend our own lives and property. There isn't always a cop or a tycoon neighbor with a gun around to come rescue us.

If we can't outlaw guns nationally to level the playing field, then let's all have the right to defend ourselves. One way or the other, let's have a level field.
You make it sound like we live in the wild wild west or something. Yes, there are areas that are more violent than others, but that doesn't mean you go out and buy guns.

I'm sorry, I don't live in the hood, so I honestly don't know how bad it is for honest folks living in these areas... I suppose pretty bad, but still this claim that I need a gun to protect myself seems a bit over the top for the majority of the folks living in this country today.

Now, if you are that 1 % of the population that lives in 10 murders per month kind of neighborhood or in the backwoods of North Carolina where it would take an hour for a 911 reponse, then perhaps they do need to protect themselves and they should have a gun. But if that gun is ever used in a crime, then there should be some stiff penalties. Also, if that guns is stolen, then report it right away. Or does something like this already exist? If not, then I would like to know why.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-31-2008, 11:59 PM
 
3,225 posts, read 7,179,790 times
Reputation: 867
Quote:
Originally Posted by LightningMcQueen View Post
You make it sound like we live in the wild wild west or something. Yes, there are areas that are more violent than others, but that doesn't mean you go out and buy guns.

I'm sorry, I don't live in the hood, so I honestly don't know how bad it is for honest folks living in these areas... I suppose pretty bad, but still this claim that I need a gun to protect myself seems a bit over the top for the majority of the folks living in this country today.

Now, if you are that 1 % of the population that lives in 10 murders per month kind of neighborhood or in the backwoods of North Carolina where it would take an hour for a 911 reponse, then perhaps they do need to protect themselves and they should have a gun. But if that gun is ever used in a crime, then there should be some stiff penalties. Also, if that guns is stolen, then report it right away. Or does something like this already exist? If not, then I would like to know why.
I don't live in the hood either but you started a thread and asked for input and since I do live in the USA and am conscious of the issues of crime and the stats across the country, I gave my position.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-01-2008, 01:28 AM
 
373 posts, read 1,276,061 times
Reputation: 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miles View Post
I don't live in the hood either but you started a thread and asked for input and since I do live in the USA and am conscious of the issues of crime and the stats across the country, I gave my position.
Well, I made the point because I don't really understand this need to protect oneself unless you are that small percentage of population in the hoods or in the backwoods. And I want to understand this. But let that be as it may. People seem to site their right under the constitution. And I have no problem if the owner is legal and he is properly trained and can keep the gun out of the illegal market.

Now, let me ask another question to anyone who can fill me in on this.

So, As I understand it, all legal guns are registered. So if all guns are legal (and they are when they leave the gun factory), we should know who the owner is, who sold it to him/her, and so on down the supply chain back to the factory. Am I correct?

Now, what happens when a gun goes astray in the supply chain and gets used in a crime? How difficult is it to trace it back to the last person who had it legit? I mean, that gun was legal up to a certain point in the supply chain, right? Did somebody buy it legally VA and sold it to some thug in NY? Or did that person in VA lose it or had it stolen and the gun got used in a crime? If something like this happens, what does it mean for the person who bought that gun? If the scenario was that he had it stolen and he reported it, then he is obviously not at fault. But what about the other scenarios?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-01-2008, 02:10 AM
 
185 posts, read 621,915 times
Reputation: 98
Here we go again, 4 or 5 gunshots , RIGHT NOW, outside the window, sigh. Gun Control laws Obviously at work (Sarcasm) 3:08am. Oct 31st.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-01-2008, 02:12 AM
 
3,225 posts, read 7,179,790 times
Reputation: 867
Quote:
Originally Posted by DesiArnez6 View Post
Here we go again, 4 or 5 gunshots , RIGHT NOW, outside the window, sigh. Gun Control laws Obviously at work (Sarcasm) 3:08am. Oct 31st.
As someone wise said, "A picture is worth a thousand words."
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-01-2008, 05:03 AM
 
3,700 posts, read 3,896,823 times
Reputation: 2203
Quote:
Originally Posted by LightningMcQueen View Post
I guess I'm trying to get a grasp of what the issues are. I understand these were illegal guns. But why do we have guns on the street in the first place? I know there are some gun laws in place... (I don't really know what these laws are exactly, which is what I'm trying to figure out.)... but are these laws stringent enough to limit illegals guns from getting into the hands of these thugs?

Or are there no laws good enough if thugs just continue to be thugs?
Because outlawing something doesn't make it disappear. Drugs and prostitution are illegal, yet are they hard to find?

The thing is that their is about as many guns as people in the United States, even if guns were outlawed, there would still be tens of millions of guns floating around. Also, making guns illegal would make thousands of gunsmiths and manufacturers unemployable. That means there would still be plenty of people who know how to manufacture firearms still around and guns aren't very hard to make. Ever hear of zip guns? How about those gun factories in Pakistan and Afghanistan that manufacture fully automatic weapons like copies of AK-47s?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-24-2008, 01:28 PM
 
132 posts, read 453,739 times
Reputation: 41
Guns are in a global marketplace. They're everywhere, from the richest to poorest countries. Even if guns were totally banned in the USA, and all our current guns taken away (magically), the country would still get flooded with guns from other countries. Tons and tons of illegal drugs are smuggled into this country, despite the very strict laws against the drug trade. It would be the same with guns.
So I don't really understand the idea behind gun bans in US cities... it seems like an extreme idealist policy. Sometimes people seem to like having a law against something even if the law doesn't do any good. You don't have to like guns to be against severe gun control laws, just like you don't have to like abortions to be in favor of abortion being legal.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-25-2008, 12:04 AM
 
469 posts, read 1,405,927 times
Reputation: 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by LightningMcQueen View Post
There's a discussion going on about the 2 boys shot by the NYPD after they allegedly shot into a crowd outside a nightclub. I personally think the police did the right thing under the circumstance. But it's stupid and it's tragic.

I think most everyone will agree that we need a tighter gun control. I personally think we should get rid of gun ownership, but I know it's not that simple. I'm very naive on this subject so I'm hoping to learn more.

So what are the forces that prevent us from getting rid of gun ownership or at least getting a tighter regulation.

NRA, the constitutional right, ... please educate me.
These people who shoot up crowds DO NOT OWN GUNS LEGALLY. It is gun control which is hurting New York and making it a red flag for criminals. All these crimianals do not own guns cause it is so hard to get a gun - gun control takes the guns out of the good people's hands. The criminals will always be criminals.

Try applying for a permit in New York honey - unless your a star or Donald Trump or not getting it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:



Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > New York > New York City
Similar Threads
View detailed profiles of:

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2017, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32 - Top