For native New Yorker only... (Buffalo, Mount Vernon: employment, tenant, elementary school)

[StuddedLeather]

I believe the whole native title is pretty self explanatory. As long as you were born here (NYC hospital) and spent at least 10 years from birth - You'd be a native :Insert city:

The ONLY exception is if your family went on a vacation and you were born else where - after you were born you guys came back home to NY.

And since when did NYC didn't have anymore natives?! I guess because all my family and I were born and raised here I'm use to it. But sometimes people DO lie about being from here you'll ask "Oh where are you from" then they say "Well jersey but alot of my fam lives here" it's like -____- That does NOT give you a pass. Lol it doesn't matter much to me though my birth certificate says "St.Johns" (It's now ("Interfaith" =/) Brooklyn born and raised; active native still living in and loving my city.

[sweetchas]

KO has a point you either from nyc or you aren't. Frequent visits or having family from here is a moot point. All of this coming from a transplant lol.

[PBrooklyn]

I'm a native, but can't imagine why I would want to go to that party.

[bn1]

Originally Posted by K.O.N.Y

Your either from NYC or nnj. NYC is the five boroughs and only the five boroughs. Ny is Ny -jersey is jersey.period

U may be able to tell someone from CA that your from nyc. But tell a native new yorker that. Get what im saying?

Again - what is a native new yorker? I brought up that it was more than just "frequent visits to family", it was also the fact of being born in NYC and moving back to NYC - in addition to NYC still being a part of regular life while in NJ.

I have some friends that were born and raised in Queens until middle school then moved to NJ. Some of them have moved back to NYC after college. They're as much native Jerseyan as they are native New Yorker. Some say a native new yorker is one who was born in NYC. Fine, I was born in NYC (Elmhurst Hospital) and the last place I lived before moving to CA was NYC for several years. And so - I consider myself a Jerseyan and also a New Yorker. A NATIVE of which? I consider the general NYC metro area - I was born in NYC and spent early years there, after all...so saying native jerseyan isn't completely true. I went to high school in NJ, so saying I'm a native new yorker doesn't quite fit either.

I also know people from Queens who went to Catholic or Private schools in Manhattan (Trinity, Xavier, Brearley) along with kids living in Jersey. Same middle and high school experience for both kids regardless of arbitrary state lines. They all took the subway and bus to school, just like you probably did.

Heck, I even knew kids from Jersey who went to Stuyvesant, LaGuardia and Brooklyn Tech and other magnet schools in NYC by using their relatives' addresses in Bay Ridge Brooklyn or Elmhurst. In some cases, their families moved to NJ when they were HS freshman but they wanted to keep attending Tech or Stuy. The ones that commuted to NYC publics went through the regents as well. You don't see interstate exchange anywhere else in the country to the same extent as NY-NJ. BTW I am not here to argue the ethical aspects of this arrangement - just that it occurred and still does occur.

As for this supposed "different feel", if you actually moved got off the turnpike or highways leading to the bridge and tunnel - you'd find that it has the same urban feel as parts of NYC. And as a true New Yorker, you know as well that not all of NYC even feels urban.

As for the "NYC 5 is boroughs" argument. As I mentioned, plenty of people in NJ have had life experiences in the 5 boroughs - birth, elementary middle or high school, parents business, relatives, etc. I assure you - any concrete point you bring up to distinguish northeast Jersey apart from NYC doesn't float, except the current state line which is in question. And except your biased "feeling" argument. Bx has a different feel from Manhattan. Bayside Queens has a different feel from Jackson Heights. Park Slope has a different feel from East New York. So, NNJ having a different feel from Manhattan is a moot point. NNJ has probably just as many Brooklyn and Queens transplants as SI.

BTW, there is now a proposal being considered to extend the 7 to Secaucus, NJ. If that happens, it will be a very interesting situation being that the subway is a unique NYC cultural icon (and Staten Island still won't have it). Things between NNJ and NYC are fluid. Someone born and raised in NJ with every aspect of their life until HS graduation taking place in NJ is a clearcut Jerseyan. Someone born and raised in Manhattan without any part of life in NJ is a clearcut New Yorker. In the NY metro region, however, there are a lot of people in between these 2 clearcut scenarios, so no point being provincial. At the end of the day, there's no reason to hate on the NJ/NY native since it applies to so many. Life within the NYC metro region, whether you like it or not, WAS that fluid for many...even if it wasn't so for yours. Ironically, Liberty Island reflects the symbiotic and fluid nature of the relationship between NYC and NNJ - it's located completely within the boundaries of Jersey City but due to a technicality, its built portions and docks fall under the jurisdiction of NYC.

Up until a generation ago, or even during the early years of my generation - a lot of native new yorkers moved to NJ. They remained native new yorkers, even if their kids became native jerseyans or native ny/nj-ers. Many of these "kids" are now moving back to their parents' old neighborhoods, and their children will be considered native new yorkers. No point in trying to set ambiguous standards to box in what a "native" is. In the end, a "native" is someone who identifies a particular area as the place where they're from. That "from" encompasses geographic, cultural, political, familial and social dimensions.

If this bothers you so much, hey blame New York. Throughout most of American history, NYC treated NNJ as its own colony and rubbed its own identity off on NNJ, just as Philadelphia did to SNJ. And now, it annoys you when people in NNJ identify with NYC so much? LOL take it as a compliment - your city (and mine) created a monster. If you insist on this jersey is jersey and nyc is nyc black and white thing, it sounds just as snobby as manhattanites insisting that everyone from outside is "b&t", and "act different." actually, i hear these days brooklyn and bronx have moved up a notch and some exempt them from the term "b&t". Funny. Now they get to use the term b&t to refer to whoever is not them...and conveniently forget they were b&t not too long ago.

[Bronxguyanese]

Originally Posted by bn1

Again - what is a native new yorker? I brought up that it was more than just "frequent visits to family", it was also the fact of being born in NYC and moving back to NYC - in addition to NYC still being a part of regular life while in NJ.

I have some friends that were born and raised in Queens until middle school then moved to NJ. Some of them have moved back to NYC after college. They're as much native Jerseyan as they are native New Yorker. Some say a native new yorker is one who was born in NYC. Fine, I was born in NYC (Elmhurst Hospital) and the last place I lived before moving to CA was NYC for several years. And so - I consider myself a Jerseyan and also a New Yorker. A NATIVE of which? I consider the general NYC metro area - I was born in NYC and spent early years there, after all...so saying native jerseyan isn't completely true. I went to high school in NJ, so saying I'm a native new yorker doesn't quite fit either.

I also know people from Queens who went to Catholic or Private schools in Manhattan (Trinity, Xavier, Brearley) along with kids living in Jersey. Same middle and high school experience for both kids regardless of arbitrary state lines. They all took the subway and bus to school, just like you probably did.

Heck, I even knew kids from Jersey who went to Stuyvesant, LaGuardia and Brooklyn Tech and other magnet schools in NYC by using their relatives' addresses in Bay Ridge Brooklyn or Elmhurst. In some cases, their families moved to NJ when they were HS freshman but they wanted to keep attending Tech or Stuy. The ones that commuted to NYC publics went through the regents as well. You don't see interstate exchange anywhere else in the country to the same extent as NY-NJ. BTW I am not here to argue the ethical aspects of this arrangement - just that it occurred and still does occur.

As for this supposed "different feel", if you actually moved got off the turnpike or highways leading to the bridge and tunnel - you'd find that it has the same urban feel as parts of NYC. And as a true New Yorker, you know as well that not all of NYC even feels urban.

As for the "NYC 5 is boroughs" argument. As I mentioned, plenty of people in NJ have had life experiences in the 5 boroughs - birth, elementary middle or high school, parents business, relatives, etc. I assure you - any concrete point you bring up to distinguish northeast Jersey apart from NYC doesn't float, except the current state line which is in question. And except your biased "feeling" argument. Bx has a different feel from Manhattan. Bayside Queens has a different feel from Jackson Heights. Park Slope has a different feel from East New York. So, NNJ having a different feel from Manhattan is a moot point. NNJ has probably just as many Brooklyn and Queens transplants as SI.

BTW, there is now a proposal being considered to extend the 7 to Secaucus, NJ. If that happens, it will be a very interesting situation being that the subway is a unique NYC cultural icon (and Staten Island still won't have it). Things between NNJ and NYC are fluid. Someone born and raised in NJ with every aspect of their life until HS graduation taking place in NJ is a clearcut Jerseyan. Someone born and raised in Manhattan without any part of life in NJ is a clearcut New Yorker. In the NY metro region, however, there are a lot of people in between these 2 clearcut scenarios, so no point being provincial. At the end of the day, there's no reason to hate on the NJ/NY native since it applies to so many. Life within the NYC metro region, whether you like it or not, WAS that fluid for many...even if it wasn't so for yours. Ironically, Liberty Island reflects the symbiotic and fluid nature of the relationship between NYC and NNJ - it's located completely within the boundaries of Jersey City but due to a technicality, its built portions and docks fall under the jurisdiction of NYC

Not all of NJ, its like this, NNJ and NYC, SNJ and Philly.

[K.O.N.Y]

Originally Posted by bn1

Again - what is a native new yorker? I brought up that it was more than just "frequent visits to family", it was also the fact of being born in NYC and moving back to NYC - in addition to NYC still being a part of regular life while in NJ.

I have some friends that were born and raised in Queens until middle school then moved to NJ. Some of them have moved back to NYC after college. They're as much native Jerseyan as they are native New Yorker. Some say a native new yorker is one who was born in NYC. Fine, I was born in NYC (Elmhurst Hospital) and the last place I lived before moving to CA was NYC for several years. And so - I consider myself a Jerseyan and also a New Yorker. A NATIVE of which? I consider the general NYC metro area - I was born in NYC and spent early years there, after all...so saying native jerseyan isn't completely true. I went to high school in NJ, so saying I'm a native new yorker doesn't quite fit either.

I also know people from Queens who went to Catholic or Private schools in Manhattan (Trinity, Xavier, Brearley) along with kids living in Jersey. Same middle and high school experience for both kids regardless of arbitrary state lines. They all took the subway and bus to school, just like you probably did.

Heck, I even knew kids from Jersey who went to Stuyvesant, LaGuardia and Brooklyn Tech and other magnet schools in NYC by using their relatives' addresses in Bay Ridge Brooklyn or Elmhurst. In some cases, their families moved to NJ when they were HS freshman but they wanted to keep attending Tech or Stuy. The ones that commuted to NYC publics went through the regents as well. You don't see interstate exchange anywhere else in the country to the same extent as NY-NJ. BTW I am not here to argue the ethical aspects of this arrangement - just that it occurred and still does occur.

As for this supposed "different feel", if you actually moved got off the turnpike or highways leading to the bridge and tunnel - you'd find that it has the same urban feel as parts of NYC. And as a true New Yorker, you know as well that not all of NYC even feels urban.

As for the "NYC 5 is boroughs" argument. As I mentioned, plenty of people in NJ have had life experiences in the 5 boroughs - birth, elementary middle or high school, parents business, relatives, etc. I assure you - any concrete point you bring up to distinguish northeast Jersey apart from NYC doesn't float, except the current state line which is in question. And except your biased "feeling" argument. Bx has a different feel from Manhattan. Bayside Queens has a different feel from Jackson Heights. Park Slope has a different feel from East New York. So, NNJ having a different feel from Manhattan is a moot point. NNJ has probably just as many Brooklyn and Queens transplants as SI.

BTW, there is now a proposal being considered to extend the 7 to Secaucus, NJ. If that happens, it will be a very interesting situation being that the subway is a unique NYC cultural icon (and Staten Island still won't have it). Things between NNJ and NYC are fluid. Someone born and raised in NJ with every aspect of their life until HS graduation taking place in NJ is a clearcut Jerseyan. Someone born and raised in Manhattan without any part of life in NJ is a clearcut New Yorker. In the NY metro region, however, there are a lot of people in between these 2 clearcut scenarios, so no point being provincial. At the end of the day, there's no reason to hate on the NJ/NY native since it applies to so many. Life within the NYC metro region, whether you like it or not, WAS that fluid for many...even if it wasn't so for yours. Ironically, Liberty Island reflects the symbiotic and fluid nature of the relationship between NYC and NNJ - it's located completely within the boundaries of Jersey City but due to a technicality, its built portions and docks fall under the jurisdiction of NYC.

Up until a generation ago, or even during the early years of my generation - a lot of native new yorkers moved to NJ. They remained native new yorkers, even if their kids became native jerseyans or native ny/nj-ers. Many of these "kids" are now moving back to their parents' old neighborhoods, and their children will be considered native new yorkers. No point in trying to set ambiguous standards to box in what a "native" is. In the end, a "native" is someone who identifies a particular area as the place where they're from. That "from" encompasses geographic, cultural, political, familial and social dimensions.

If this bothers you so much, hey blame New York. Throughout most of American history, NYC treated NNJ as its own colony and rubbed its own identity off on NNJ, just as Philadelphia did to SNJ. And now, it annoys you when people in NNJ identify with NYC so much? LOL take it as a compliment - your city (and mine) created a monster. If you insist on this jersey is jersey and nyc is nyc black and white thing, it sounds just as snobby as manhattanites insisting that everyone from outside is "b&t", and "act different." actually, i hear these days brooklyn and bronx have moved up a notch and some exempt them from the term "b&t". Funny. Now they get to use the term b&t to refer to whoever is not them...and conveniently forget they were b&t not too long ago.

This post is not directed to you

But many from this site, particularly from New Jersey. Treat the status of new yorker like its some fake mythical, interchangeable thing. Where all one has to do is live 10 minutes outside of manhattan(my favorite),or went to HS in Bk, family in the bronx etc. People often forget that,despite nycs attraction and glamour, nyc is a real city with very real flesh and blood residents who were born and raised here. And has been calling this place home since birth. Who could careless what a transplant thinks the real new york is and could careless about being "only" ten minutes from a tourist attraction-or the excitement of it all This is a city of eight million, the bulk of which is in bx,bk,qns and Si

Its strange i think new york is the only city that has to go through this with residents from surrounding . Besides maybe DC with nova and maryland residents

To bn1
Ya the bronx feels different from east ny,both from manhattan,manhattan from flushing etc. The thing is they all feel distinctively "NEW YORK" they all have added something to this city's history and maintain fragments of new yorks flavor. Nnj feels like Nnj

The seven line was dead before it started and was'nt taken seriously. The MTA would never do that

[bn1]

Originally Posted by K.O.N.Y

This post is not directed to you

But many from this site, particularly from New Jersey. Treat the status of new yorker like its some fake mythical, interchangeable thing. Where all one has to do is live 10 minutes outside of manhattan(my favorite),or went to HS in Bk, family in the bronx etc.

I'm sure you have a lot of pride in being a native New Yorker, and want to defend the boundaries of the label's usage by upholding the strictest standards. Maybe you're defending it because it DOES feel like a status symbol to you as well - in simplest terms: it just sounds better to be from NYC than NNJ. No argument from me there. As trivial a point it may be - that's probably the honest opinion of most people in the tri-state area. Take it as a compliment to your city that all these NNJ people find that their identity as a North Jerseyan is inseparable from NYC. Ask a person in any country in the world about NYC, and they'll know and have imagined things. Frank Sinatra, a Jersey native, even sang New York, New York. Evidently, he felt the same connection to NYC. You won't find people from far away lands dreaming of moving to NJ.

It's no secret that for most of Jersey's existence, its purpose was pretty much to provide a supporting role to NYC (esp Manhattan) - whether through skilled workers, produce, housing the Jets/Giants, transportation highways, summer lake homes, and a place for people to move out from NYC. It's only natural for NNJ to want to associate themselves with what they also believe to be their favorite city, which happens to be the city they're also playing a supporting role and often came from. My guess is that it annoys Jerseyans when NYC people want to take all the benefits Jersey provides without allowing NNJ people the grace of acknowledging them as part of what makes NYC...NYC. And anyone knowledgeable will tell you NYC needs NNJ just as much as NNJ needs NYC. Pretty juvenile (on both ends), but that's how it's always going to be.

Having been on the west coast for the past few months, I can confirm that many don't realize NNJ is literally only 5-10 mins away from NYC - or our whole culture of exchange across state lines. And that's probably why so many NNJ people try to make the statement, "Hey, we're not from this place you think is an armpit in the middle of nowhere. We're from a specific region that shares in NYC culture and roots, and we've done our part to support NYC as much as NYC as supported us."

To a native New Yorker, a Native Jerseyan would just say they're from NJ since a new yorker is close enough to understand the regional dynamics. Outside the local area, they'll probably interchange NJ and NYC b/c they figure if they say NJ, the other party will get the idea that they're complete separate from NYC culture and life - which isn't true.

Originally Posted by K.O.N.Y

Nnj feels like Nnj

I will agree that people have made statements here that show they don't know really know about New York City aside from Manhattan and maybe a few pockets of here and there. In the same token, I'm not sure how much of NNJ you've actually experienced beyond the Parkway and Turnpike. Probably less than these Jerseyans who've experienced NYC, so a blanket statement like NNJ feels like NNJ is hardly valid. The different counties in NNJ don't resemble each other much at all. In Bergen County, the whole Palisades Park-Fort Lee-Leonia-Ridgefield Park and surrounding areas have the highest Korean population density in the country. You don't get a NNJ feel there - you get the same feeling as you do in parts of Queens. Maybe there's more of NYC for you to see as well before assuming all parts of NYC feels like a certain distinctive way, and NNJ feels like some other distinctive way. There are parts of Essex that have mansions and sprawling lawns like your stereotypical image of NNJ, and there are parts that resemble Tremont in Bronx both in vibe and appearance. The very reason why NNJ IS so similar to NYC is because of its ethnic and socioeconomic diversity, and population density. The truth is - most of these people CAME from NYC and carried that NYC feel with them to wherever they went.

[K.O.N.Y]

Originally Posted by bn1

I'm sure you have a lot of pride in being a native New Yorker, and want to defend the boundaries of the label's usage by upholding the strictest standards. Maybe you're defending it because it DOES feel like a status symbol to you as well - in simplest terms: it just sounds better to be from NYC than NNJ. No argument from me there. As trivial a point it may be - that's probably the honest opinion of most people in the tri-state area. Take it as a compliment to your city that all these NNJ people find that their identity as a North Jerseyan is inseparable from NYC. Ask a person in any country in the world about NYC, and they'll know and have imagined things. Frank Sinatra, a Jersey native, even sang New York, New York. Evidently, he felt the same connection to NYC. You won't find people from far away lands dreaming of moving to NJ.

It's no secret that for most of Jersey's existence, its purpose was pretty much to provide a supporting role to NYC (esp Manhattan) - whether through skilled workers, produce, housing the Jets/Giants, transportation highways, summer lake homes, and a place for people to move out from NYC. It's only natural for NNJ to want to associate themselves with what they also believe to be their favorite city, which happens to be the city they're also playing a supporting role and often came from. My guess is that it annoys Jerseyans when NYC people want to take all the benefits Jersey provides without allowing NNJ people the grace of acknowledging them as part of what makes NYC...NYC. And anyone knowledgeable will tell you NYC needs NNJ just as much as NNJ needs NYC. Pretty juvenile (on both ends), but that's how it's always going to be.

Having been on the west coast for the past few months, I can confirm that many don't realize NNJ is literally only 5-10 mins away from NYC - or our whole culture of exchange across state lines. And that's probably why so many NNJ people try to make the statement, "Hey, we're not from this place you think is an armpit in the middle of nowhere. We're from a specific region that shares in NYC culture and roots, and we've done our part to support NYC as much as NYC as supported us."

To a native New Yorker, a Native Jerseyan would just say they're from NJ since a new yorker is close enough to understand the regional dynamics. Outside the local area, they'll probably interchange NJ and NYC b/c they figure if they say NJ, the other party will get the idea that they're complete separate from NYC culture and life - which isn't true.



I will agree that people have made statements here that show they don't know really know about New York City aside from Manhattan and maybe a few pockets of here and there. In the same token, I'm not sure how much of NNJ you've actually experienced beyond the Parkway and Turnpike. Probably less than these Jerseyans who've experienced NYC, so a blanket statement like NNJ feels like NNJ is hardly valid. The different counties in NNJ don't resemble each other much at all. In Bergen County, the whole Palisades Park-Fort Lee-Leonia-Ridgefield Park and surrounding areas have the highest Korean population density in the country. You don't get a NNJ feel there - you get the same feeling as you do in parts of Queens. Maybe there's more of NYC for you to see as well before assuming all parts of NYC feels like a certain distinctive way, and NNJ feels like some other distinctive way. There are parts of Essex that have mansions and sprawling lawns like your stereotypical image of NNJ, and there are parts that resemble Tremont in Bronx both in vibe and appearance. The very reason why NNJ IS so similar to NYC is because of its ethnic and socioeconomic diversity, and population density. The truth is - most of these people CAME from NYC and carried that NYC feel with them to wherever they went.

Thats the thing, the label "native new yorker" is not a status symbol im trying to uphold................Its just what i am lol. Im not unique there are millions of other born and raised "native new yorkers" through out the five boros just like me. So its strange when people outside of that and clearly not that try to impose that title on to themselves. And justify it with ridiculous things(went to school there,live 5 minutes"outside it"etc)

The only place that "FEELS" like queens is queens. There maybe a'lot of similarities out there, say bk and philly,bx-patterson etc. But as far as feel i would say no. New yorkers dont feel new york until they cross that gwb,lincoln or holland

[bn1]

Originally Posted by K.O.N.Y

Thats the thing, the label "native new yorker" is not a status symbol im trying to uphold................Its just what i am lol. Im not unique there are millions of other born and raised "native new yorkers" through out the five boros just like me. So its strange when people outside of that and clearly not that try to impose that title on to themselves. And justify it with ridiculous things(went to school there,live 5 minutes"outside it"etc)

The only place that "FEELS" like queens is queens. There maybe a'lot of similarities out there, say bk and philly,bx-patterson etc. But as far as feel i would say no. New yorkers dont feel new york until they cross that gwb,lincoln or holland

Whatever it is, one thing is clear: you'll find more new jerseyans tagging along the new york hometown label than vice versa. And for good reason - to many in NNJ - they think "what's the difference between us and someone from SI besides some arbitrary state lines?"

Not as many recognize New Jersey and yet everyone recognizes NYC. That's the simple truth. Therefore, people from NNJ will interchangeably say "NYC" and "NJ" when asked where they're from. Does that bother you so much? If someone in the tri-state region, such as yourself, asked - i'm sure they'll tell you straight up they're from NJ. But if someone outside of the region asks, what difference does it make? I really don't think many native Jerseyans would tell a native New Yorker they're a native New Yorker, without good reason - maybe they lived in NYC for the first 15 years of life or some other factor that makes them feel a strong connection to the NYC. It's not like people born and raised in Clifton, NJ are saying they're native New Yorkers.

As for "new yorkers don't feel new york until they cross the gwb or lincoln"...I assure you that transplants from NJ, the midwest, CA all probably feel the same way once they've lived in NYC for a couple of months. It's just a common "i'm near home" feeling, regardless of where they're a native of.

You mentioned a good point - that the native new yorker label is just "Its just what i am". To most in NNJ, being a native north jerseyan is synonymous being with a native extension of NYC. And unless you've lived in NNJ and experienced firsthand the daily influence of NYC in NNJ, you can't really argue with that. On 9/11 when the towers went down, you could see it from NNJ, people from NNJ died, and families had members in the towers at the time. Same with the blackout. Traffic patterns in NNJ are directly affected every morning by what's going on in NYC. Whatever is happening economically affects NNJ immediately, not a week later. Whatever foods NYC is famous for, so is NNJ. NYC news channels always cover NNJ as well. I'm guessing you never really spent a significant amount of time in NNJ. Therefore, you couldn't really know how much NYC is intertwined in NNJ daily life. I honestly think it's the mentality of those in the outer boroughs that tend to view a huge gap between NNJ and NYC, due to the distance. Those in Manhattan are more likely to recognize that NNJ basically functions as another borough of NYC.

[openheads]

Originally Posted by bn1

Therefore, people from NNJ will interchangeably say "NYC" and "NJ" when asked where they're from.

Speak for yourself............................. I'm from NJ & that's where I say I'm from.