The Plight of the Puerto Rican (New York, Cuba: how much, contractors, closing)

[crisp444]

Originally Posted by cjma79

Yes about 52% of the people voted for ELA(current status) and only like 46-47 voted for statehood that is why the PNP party wants a federal election with only 2 options statehood or independence.
If ELA is an option people will always pick it.
I mean why not, they get all the goodies from the federal gov. But don't pay any federal tax. That is way I always vote for statehood because I think is unfair that PR receives this money from the US without paying for it.

Thank you for pointing out these statistics. Too few people know the truth that most Puerto Ricans are perfectly happy with the status quo, that becoming a 51st state is by far the option with the second-most support, and that only a small minority actually supports independence. I don't think I know any Puerto Ricans who actually want independence.

The status quo is a comfortable and familiar place to stay. Not only can the island remain part of the United States, it can also better maintain its Latin (as opposed to Anglo-Saxon) culture and the Spanish language. If Puerto Rico were to become a 51st state, many fear that the Spanish language will slowly and gradually erode and that the island will become Anglicized. On the flip side, inclusion as a 51st state will likely bring economic benefits such as increased international and domestic trade. It's a hard call, but at least the overwhelming majority of Puerto Ricans realize that independence is just symbolism with few economic or social benefits.

Puerto Rico is not a country, it is a patria (which means "cultural homeland"), and the status quo does little to harm this sense of pride - there is virtually no Puerto Rican alive that saw the island as part of Spain; it has been a distinct commonwealth of the United States since 1898.

[crisp444]

Originally Posted by SobroGuy

Great to see this post is sane and reasonable..I expected lots of hate. I have a few basic comments, as this discussion is better left in person...its a tough subject. PR is a nation of conquered people whom never tasted freedom..they were owned and enslaved by their mother country (Spain), and then were handed over to their Step-Father (US). Independence is something that unfortunately was bred out of the culture long ago, and reinforced by the continuing dependence on the US. The mentality of always looking to Mommy (Spain) or Daddy (US) for help with everything has been at the heart of the culture since Day 1....and that has not changed. The Islanders unfortunately would rather stay in Dad's home and never move to the next stage of Adulthood (independence) for fear of losing all the security, free rent, and comfort of home...many people go through this..it is the same for PR. Regarding the PRs that moved to the states...they came with the same aspirations of the American Dream that every other group before them had..work hard, and provide a better life for themselves and their children. Unfortunately, their reliance on Daddy (the US government) to help them with everything, which was part of their culture, ultimately led to their downfall...always has. Until that mentality changes, aka the Island "grows up" and "moves out", as well as those in the US....their plight will never change.

Thank you for taking the time to write this, but it's all symbolism. What concrete examples of this "plight" and arguments for why it won't change if the status quo is held can you provide? I have never heard a single one, and you are a smart guy, so I am very curious to listen.

[crisp444]

Originally Posted by SobroGuy

Yes but that applies to everyone..have you ever been to middle America? There are tens of millions of poor whites who suffer the same problem..entrenched in the cycle of poverty...so that is human nature. The issue is, however, that there is something bigger than "it is your own fault" at play...and that is what we are discussing.....ALL of the factors involved with this particular group...instead of just the simplistics blame game.

I don't blame Nuyoricans as a group just like I do not blame African-Americans, Appalachian hillbillies, or any other sector of the population as a group. In 2008, I blame each and every individual - regardless of to what group they pertain or belong - who decides to drop out of school, engage in violence, and commit crime. Prejudices toward race/ethnicity and toward the poor still exist and I will not deny that; however, they don't exist strongly enough to hold down people who have the motivation and drive to be upstanding citizens that provide from themselves and their families. I judge people individually, so when you say "blame game" I certainly hope you are not referring to me. You know that whenever I speak negatively about certain "Nuyoricans" and their neighborhoods, I always state that I am merely talking about some of them and not trying to say that the whole group is bad.

[Moth]

There is another way out for the US and PR, the good ole United Nations:

SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON DECOLONIZATION APPROVES TEXT CALLING ON UNITED STATES TO EXPEDITE PUERTO RICAN SELF-DETERMINATION PROCESS

The UN has called on the USA to expedite the self-determination process for PR.

[Leilani Vasquez]

Originally Posted by NooYowkur81

You forget to mention that Puerto-Ricans have been here longer and they come into the country as U.S. citizens. They should hypothetically not be competing for the same jobs as Dominicans and Central Americans with those advantages. Granted Puerto-Ricans being here longer has also been a huge disadvantage, as they were exposed to some much rougher plights.

I completely agree with you.

[Leilani Vasquez]

Originally Posted by cjma79

Hmmm, I dont know..
A few nuyoricans that I know here in NYC have a very strong puerto rican culture, while others(most) only have the flag as a culture.
But again, it depends on the family, a lof of italian still have their culture in NYC, and some dont.
But Nuyoricans here have created their own culture, they have mixed Puerto Rican culture with black-American.

I disagree with you.

How do you define "black american culture"?

[Leilani Vasquez]

I am 3rd generation PR. We live in Hartford, CT. I was one of the first people in my family to get a college degree, with my younger sister behind me. My mother speaks English well, but my Grandmother just refuses to learn English. She gets extremely upset at the fact that my children and my neices and nephews don't speak spanish well. I think the main reason this has happened is because in my area, they have significantly cut dual language classes in our education system. They limit these services only to the students who have been in this country for less than 2 years. So i think this whole "new" culture of puerto ricans not speaking spanish, or not speaking spanish well has a lot to do with this.

[cjma79]

Originally Posted by Leilani Vasquez

I disagree with you.

How do you define "black american culture"?

OK so you think that they don't they have mixed while many of them use the N word and talk like them and dress like them and have mixed rap in their songs if that is not culture then I don't know what it is?
Culture: relegion, music, language, art, etc.
So yes they have mixed culture I have never heard the word N in PR.
And Latin rap isn't that a mix of black culture or is rap a white culture?
I realy don't understand your question.

[NooYowkur81]

Originally Posted by cjma79

OK so you think that they don't they have mixed while many of them use the N word and talk like them and dress like them and have mixed rap in their songs if that is not culture then I don't know what it is?
Culture: relegion, music, language, art, etc.
So yes they have mixed culture I have never heard the word N in PR.
And Latin rap isn't that a mix of black culture or is rap a white culture?
I realy don't understand your question.

Aha but you can argue hip-hop culture is in itself a by-product to some degree of Latino inner city culture. Latinos primarily Nuyoricans have been involved in the birth and maturation of hip-hop from day one.

[cjma79]

Originally Posted by Leilani Vasquez

I am 3rd generation PR. We live in Hartford, CT. I was one of the first people in my family to get a college degree, with my younger sister behind me. My mother speaks English well, but my Grandmother just refuses to learn English. She gets extremely upset at the fact that my children and my neices and nephews don't speak spanish well. I think the main reason this has happened is because in my area, they have significantly cut dual language classes in our education system. They limit these services only to the students who have been in this country for less than 2 years. So i think this whole "new" culture of puerto ricans not speaking spanish, or not speaking spanish well has a lot to do with this.

Yes I agree, but teaching spanish is a responsibility of the parents(if they want to...) not the school system. Many 2nd and 3rd generation Italians in NYC still speak Italian, same with Russians and Latinos.