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I'm interested in finding out what neighborhoods will change the least in terms of wealth and demographics. I am currently living around Morris Park/ Pelham Parkway section of the Bronx. However, I'm concerned that in time the area is going to go way down hill considering that every other area surrounding it is gone. I mean I go around to Allerton, Pelham Bay, Westchester Square. These areas have changed a ton since I was a little kid. I'm only 20 years old now and I can see a huge change. Allerton all the West Indians from Gun Hill are coming down strong and the people from Fordham moving east to Pelham Parkway, and even Pelham Bay is beginning to look dirty and run down by the 6 train. Buhre Avenue I thought was always decent but now I really don't know. Even the best stretch of White Plains Road off Lydig around Pelham Parkway South is getting that real faded out look. Pelham Parkway and Morris Park are the real last hold outs in the East Bronx and Riverdale in the West. What neighborhoods do you think are going to experience the least change out of Bensonhurst, Morris Park, Howard Beach, Whitestone, Gravesend, Maspeth?
I'm interested in finding out what neighborhoods will change the least in terms of wealth and demographics. I am currently living around Morris Park/ Pelham Parkway section of the Bronx. However, I'm concerned that in time the area is going to go way down hill considering that every other area surrounding it is gone. I mean I go around to Allerton, Pelham Bay, Westchester Square. These areas have changed a ton since I was a little kid. I'm only 20 years old now and I can see a huge change. Allerton all the West Indians from Gun Hill are coming down strong and the people from Fordham moving east to Pelham Parkway, and even Pelham Bay is beginning to look dirty and run down by the 6 train. Buhre Avenue I thought was always decent but now I really don't know. Even the best stretch of White Plains Road off Lydig around Pelham Parkway South is getting that real faded out look. Pelham Parkway and Morris Park are the real last hold outs in the East Bronx and Riverdale in the West. What neighborhoods do you think are going to experience the least change out of Bensonhurst, Morris Park, Howard Beach, Whitestone, Gravesend, Maspeth?
Define original character? What makes you so sure that the character of the neighborhood you grew up in was really original? NYC is always evolving and adapting to its inhabitants. The "original" character of this great city has long been gone. It's still the greatest city of this country and quite possibly the world.
Morris Park will probably change because gentrification is driving all the lower income peeps to the bronx, and there is only so much space left in the bronx
This individual uses the word "original" but is most likely implying the character of the neighborhood that made it great. Not necessarily the original inhabitants of the neighborhood, but the time when the neighborhood hit its peak. Usually greatness is exemplified by what unique amenities the neighborhood offered, and a regional or even national reputation will develop as a result.
You speak of this always evolving and adapting as the greatness, but that is not necessarily true. You cannot convince anyone that an evolution of Harlem away from the African American culture of the Harlem Renaissance and jazz music that put it on the map is a positive thing. Nor can you convince anyone that the Russian/Asian invasion of Italian Bensonhurst is a good thing. When neighborhoods such as these become places with a unique niche and gain national recognition, any tampering via an invasion of new people will usually cause the place to go downhill into a cultural abyss. Maybe the negative aspects, such as crime, of the neighborhood's former days are minimized, but then it just becomes another Omaha.
Quote:
Originally Posted by iGlenn
Define original character? What makes you so sure that the character of the neighborhood you grew up in was really original? NYC is always evolving and adapting to its inhabitants. The "original" character of this great city has long been gone. It's still the greatest city of this country and quite possibly the world.
I live in Central/north Riverdale (252 street and Broadway). At one time I'm sure this area was solid Irish and still is, but now we have more Albanians and Hispanics in addition. I don't think the addition changed the area in terms of wealth; if anything the area is getting more popular and every available space is being swallowed up by new construction for condos and co-ops
if anything changed it's that the area is more overrun and crowded since it's a recreational area as well and as it gains in desirability it gets more overrun
This individual uses the word "original" but is most likely implying the character of the neighborhood that made it great. Not necessarily the original inhabitants of the neighborhood, but the time when the neighborhood hit its peak. Usually greatness is exemplified by what unique amenities the neighborhood offered, and a regional or even national reputation will develop as a result.
You speak of this always evolving and adapting as the greatness, but that is not necessarily true. You cannot convince anyone that an evolution of Harlem away from the African American culture of the Harlem Renaissance and jazz music that put it on the map is a positive thing.
I think you misread my post. In my original post I used the words "great city" and "greatest city" implying that the whole city is great.
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Originally Posted by DITC
Nor can you convince anyone that the Russian/Asian invasion of Italian Bensonhurst is a good thing.
A generation or two from now I don't think I'd have a problem convincing the Russians and Asians that Bensonhurst is great. It all depends on your perspective.
Italians are not original to Bensonhurst. New Utrecht (as Bensonhurst was once called) was inhabited by the Dutch. Bensonhurst was once the Benson Farm which was subdivided into parcels of land and sold to Italian immigrants. I'm sure most of the Dutch thought that New Utrecht was going downhill into a cultural abyss when old man Benson sold out to the Italians.
Morris Park will probably change because gentrification is driving all the lower income peeps to the bronx, and there is only so much space left in the bronx
The only problem with that statement is that gentrification is also driving a lot of solid middle class peeps to The Bronx....primarily from Manhattan and Brooklyn.A reasoned argument can be made for areas like Pelham Parkway/Morris Park going either way.There are forces working in both directions.Mostly it will depend on whether the middle class people already there stay put or jump ship.
Change in urban neighborhoods is an ebb and flow... not forever in one direction or the other. Just because a neighborhood "declines" for a period doesn't mean that it will sink into an abyss.I grew up in an urban slum( not in NYC) that is now over the top gentrified.
What I had meant by original character is which area has original ethnic character to it. For instance, the way Harlem is historical known as an African American area or like how Bensonhurst is known for being Italian. I can tell you Manhattan is finished in that sense. No real New Yorkers actually live in Manhattan. Its become a place for the super rich or for people who make just enough to squeeze by just so they can say that they live there. And original character I also meant which areas still have real New Yorkers living in them. When I say that I mean Italian, Irish, Jewish, Puerto Rican, Black. I've heard a decent number of Western Europeans have been moving into areas of Brooklyn and Queens. Does anyone know about a that trend? I can tell you that around Pelham Parkway the area will progressivley get worse. The original residents are slowly leaving. But I have heard of a couple of people escaping the prices in Manhattan to come here so I don't think the area is down and out yet.
I live in Central/north Riverdale (252 street and Broadway). At one time I'm sure this area was solid Irish and still is, but now we have more Albanians and Hispanics in addition. I don't think the addition changed the area in terms of wealth; if anything the area is getting more popular and every available space is being swallowed up by new construction for condos and co-ops
if anything changed it's that the area is more overrun and crowded since it's a recreational area as well and as it gains in desirability it gets more overrun
You're neighborhood is changing because the new residents are allowed to buy and rent property in the area now. Just 20 years ago most of Riverdale would not rent or allow certain ethnic and racial groups to buy into the area. Even when they had prestigious well paying positions. Most had to go up to Westchester or other areas.
Yes I know they are not original. The Dutch came first, everything in NY from Gravesend to Harlem to New Dorp is Dutch.
Anyone would be a fool to say any ethnicity will match the Italians in Bensonhurst. The Italians played a huge role in shaping the character and amenities of NY in the last 100 years, and Bensonhurst has been the residential mecca for a long time. Bensonhurst will not be a better/more interesting place without the Italians. If I want Russian or Chinese I go to Brighton Beach or Flushing, not Bensonhurst. Bensonhurst is starting to look like an Anycity, USA toilet, and this gives residents less incentive to stay. When you give original residents less incentive to stay the place dies and is gone forever. YES, people can move where ever they want, but please note that cultural death is what it is, a sad thing, especially in the boring America 2009 consumer goods and McDonalds society.
It would also be silly to have a Harlem without the culture that made it a mecca. Whats interesting about a yuppy Harlem when every US downtown area is already yuppy? Do we really need to replace soul food with yet another block of sushi joints owned by non Japanese? Harlem's history and cultural peak is in its African American culture and Renaissance, and it would be ridiculous to wipe that history away. If someone from another group wants to move to Harlem to "experience it", they will eat at the local joints for 2 weeks, then the novelty will wear off and they will be spending money downtown and not supporting the local Harlem businesses. Multiply these individuals and you have a recipe to put all the soul food restaurant and other shop owners out of business due to lack of clientele. This goes for any neighborhood.
Outside of New York, there are few cultural meccas for people to visit as other cities' residents tend to flee faster than NYers from the neighborhood. Once these places are killed in New York, culture dies and NY converges into the other US cities which is BORING.
Despite the fact that the evolution has made it an interesting place, New York would not be what it is today without certain cultures, and those cultures and their pioneers should be respected by preservation. If anyone disagrees then they probably dont have any roots.
Quote:
Originally Posted by iGlenn
A generation or two from now I don't think I'd have a problem convincing the Russians and Asians that Bensonhurst is great. It all depends on your perspective.
Italians are not original to Bensonhurst. New Utrecht (as Bensonhurst was once called) was inhabited by the Dutch. Bensonhurst was once the Benson Farm which was subdivided into parcels of land and sold to Italian immigrants. I'm sure most of the Dutch thought that New Utrecht was going downhill into a cultural abyss when old man Benson sold out to the Italians.
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