Security Cameras in NY Streets to Deter Crime... (Liberty, Viola: apartment, how much)

[Moderate Guy]

Originally Posted by newtoli

I believe that they already have this system in place in London, I'd be interested to see how it has progressed, how they are using it, what they are using it for, since implementation.

That's a good idea. Perhaps we can learn from their experiences over there.

[Dark of the Moon]

Originally Posted by A_Better_Bronx_2morrow

Explain that to me. And explain the evidence they have on you that got you into trouble?

Not connected to cameras, but here is an example of someone who did absolutely nothing wrong and still found himself in a lot of trouble.

[justfarr1030]

Originally Posted by A_Better_Bronx_2morrow

Of coarse you have some VERY LIBERAL folks and advocates who are against this idea because they "claim" its an invasion of privacy even though its in a PUBLIC street. What privacy does ANYONE have in the streets anyways? NONE!

The way I see it is...IF YOU AIN'T DOING NOTHING WRONG THEN YOU HAVE NOTHING TO WORRY ABOUT. So why should you care?

Are the cameras sobotaging the dirt you are trying to do in the streets because you know the likelyhood you might get caught and do some time? Is that why you're complaining about the cameras being put up?

Would love to hear people's opinion on this.

LOL. Ok, that part of the post was obviously not neccessary. We all have opinions and as long as you can back them up logically is all that matters (IMO). I am against having cameras in neighborhoods as this to me promotes the feeling as though the community is all criminals who can't be trusted without being watched 24/7.

My MAIN concern is that this whole atmosphere that has been created by Bush and his cohardts (Patriot Act I & II) about "Terroism" and "Safety" and that we have to take all these rights away from you in order to ensure your safety which is ABSOLUTE Mod cut: language. Our founding fathers have put in place these civil liberities for good reason and they are literally being stripped from us in an undemocratic way. NOONE has yet to prove to me how taking civil liberities away from people is "helping" us, NOONE (I haven't seen it in this thread yet either).

Beside the fact that we all know that the cameras are only going up in CERTAIN neighborhoods, the question I have in response to the thread started is WHERE DOES IT STOP?

[A_Better_Bronx_2morrow]

Originally Posted by newtoli

it absolutely could lead to that. People, in general, are corrupt. Once a system is in place, there is always potential for abuse from the people at the top. While I think it is a good idea in theory for crime deterrence, my concern would be that while it would start as one thing, it would eventually morph into another. The whole, "give them an inch and they'll take a mile". I believe that they already have this system in place in London, I'd be interested to see how it has progressed, how they are using it, what they are using it for, since implementation.

You shouldn't think so negative. The "man" is not out to get us by placing cameras everywhere.

[bmwguydc]

Cameras are nothing new, the widespread use of them is what would be new. There have been cameras in some locations for years. It all depends upon what they are used for, but in today's age, the reasonable expectation of privacy ends at one's door in the physical universe.

[newtoli]

Originally Posted by A_Better_Bronx_2morrow

You shouldn't think so negative. The "man" is not out to get us by placing cameras everywhere.

I'm not thinking negatively, and I'm not talking about "the man". I'm talking about human nature.

You're telling me that someone in control of, or with access to these cameras, might not have a price? It's absolutely possible. There is just too much potential for abuse in my mind.

As for your claim of "IF YOU AIN'T DOING NOTHING WRONG THEN YOU HAVE NOTHING TO WORRY ABOUT", tell that to these people:
http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/inno...reed-death-row

[Moderate Guy]

Originally Posted by justfarr1030

watched 24/7.

Our founding fathers have put in place these civil liberities for good reason and they are literally being stripped from us in an undemocratic way. NOONE has yet to prove to me how taking civil liberities away from people is "helping" us, NOONE (I haven't seen it in this thread yet either).

Show me where the founding fathers had to deal with the murderous scum who attacked us and are now planning to attack us again? With all due respect to our honorable Fathers, I daresay Jefferson, Franklin, Washington, Paine, Penn would all have been ducking for cover on 9/11 and figuring the best security techniques to save all our asses including sacrificing some so-called private rights for the good of all.

[newtoli]

Originally Posted by Miles

Show me where the founding fathers had to deal with the murderous scum who attacked us and are now planning to attack us again? With all due respect to our honorable Fathers, I daresay Jefferson, Franklin, Washington, Paine, Penn would all have been ducking for cover on 9/11 and figuring the best security techniques to save all our asses including sacrificing some so-called private rights for the good of all.

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Frankln

IMO, we need to hold ourselves to higher standards as a nation and lead by example. We should not be violating the Geneva Convention. We should not be holding people for no reason, with no trial. We should not be impinging on the rights of law-abiding citizens "just in case".

[Moderate Guy]

Originally Posted by newtoli

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Frankln

IMO, we need to hold ourselves to higher standards as a nation and lead by example. We should not be violating the Geneva Convention. We should not be holding people for no reason, with no trial. We should not be impinging on the rights of law-abiding citizens "just in case".

Too much of Orwell can create paranoia and schizophrenia. Let's be real and put things in measured perspective.

And hey, we're not talking temporary safety...it's permanent one, my friend!

[newtoli]

Originally Posted by Miles

Too much of Orwell can create paranoia and schizophrenia. Let's be real and put things in measured perspective.

And hey, we're not talking temporary safety...it's permanent one, my friend!

I am being real, and putting this into perspective. Benjamin Franklin is probably rolling over in his grave!

Case in point, the lawyer referenced in previous post. You cannot destroy one persons life under the perception that you might be making life better for others. It's a fine line to walk, and cross. These are not the ideals this country was founded upon. There are ways to deal with this situation without sacrificing our personal liberties.

We are the United States of America. We hold ourselves to higher standards, and we have sacrificed them out of fear. The terrorists have won, in that regard.

Nothing will give us permanent safety.