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Old 02-15-2009, 08:27 PM
 
Location: Astoria, Queens, you know the scene
719 posts, read 1,497,318 times
Reputation: 504

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Quote:
Originally Posted by gichicago View Post
Do you work for a consulting firm or an Independant contractor? I was an IT consultant 2 years ago before moving to IT dept for a large corporation. People I know at my old firm are taking projects whereever they can, for fear of being laid off by being on the bench too long.

At least you can use those miles towards a nice vacation. Just make sure to use them before the airlines render them worthless
I work for a consulting firm. Yeah tell me about it, I was on bench for months and months, but luckily I was working on RFP responses and didn't get laid off. There's not much project work right now, especially in NYC with the entire finance industry down the drain. I hope to ride out the recession in LA, and find something in NY in a couple years, when hopefully this is all over - my worst fear is that it will be even worse in 2 years.
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Old 02-15-2009, 08:31 PM
 
3,225 posts, read 5,429,563 times
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Originally Posted by gichicago View Post
At least you can use those miles towards a nice vacation. Just make sure to use them before the airlines render them worthless
or before the airlines go belly up.
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Old 02-15-2009, 09:22 PM
 
Location: Now in Houston!
923 posts, read 2,479,392 times
Reputation: 633
Quote:
Originally Posted by bx718 View Post
I.T has changed but it is NOT DEAD; gone are the days when people got paid very well for performing relatively trivial tasks. If you're just the typical "web developer" or the help-desk "guru" aka glorified lab assistant, or your "job" can be accomplished by a code generator, then of course your job is being shipped to a location offering the same services at a much lower cost. Lower your costs and increase your profits right? If your skills were easily acquired, then your job might be easily disposed of - quite simple.



It will never die but it doesn't neccessarily imply that once you have a CS degree, you're set in life. CS is one of few majors a new graduate can walk onto the job with a much more extensive skillset than the "chief architect". This because best developers/architects are usually self-taught.

* MAKE SURE you're fundamentally sound - if you're thinking of becoming a developer for example, you cannot be weak in OOP.

* Join your school's programming-competition team

* Get real life experience while you're in school. If you learn how to develop web applications for example, you can build a decent data-driven application for your local non-profit organization. You won't get paid then, but the thrill of the completed project, and the experience you gain is invaluable. Some people started like this and became entrepreneurs

* Get certified - For $200 and a few months of studying, you can become certified in your area of choice. You can pick up the test-kit PDFs online for a few dollars. Certification is a good way to ice your experience-cake i.e. it is more valuable when accompanied by experience. It is also a comprehensive way to learn technologies.

* Get familiar with technologies people are most reluctant to learn like distributed application development, network/multithreaded applications, ASYNCHRONOUS development, SOA, IPC, Java Web services etc. For example, according to Microsoft learning, for the .NET 2.0 platform, the ratios of Certified Web : Certified Windows : Certified Distributed-Apps developers are approximately 4:2:1 (39,357 :18,387 : 9,445). These are worldwide numbers so just guess which of the 3 has the highest job security?

As long as you don't graduate with just lab-assistant experience, you're fine. CS is still one of the hottest technical majors today. M.I.S/C.I.S is another story....
Very solid advice. I was going to post a similar comment, but BX718 did a much better job than I could have!

I am a technology product manager and I have been working with developers for over 10 years.

I'd like to add that programming is one of the few remaining fields that is a true a "meritocracy", where you will get paid and advance your career based on what you know (not who you know) and "credentials" like where you went to college are irrelevant. If you can write good code and keep your skills up to date, you will never be unemployed for long and will likely earn six figures. In my experience as well, the best programmers are self-taught and continually learn new skills and techniques. They do this on their own out of sheer enjoyment and intellectual curiosity.
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Old 02-15-2009, 09:36 PM
 
3,225 posts, read 5,429,563 times
Reputation: 845
Quote:
Originally Posted by UpstaterInBklyn View Post
Very solid advice. I was going to post a similar comment, but BX718 did a much better job than I could have!

I am a technology product manager and I have been working with developers for over 10 years.

I'd like to add that programming is one of the few remaining fields that is a true a "meritocracy", where you will get paid and advance your career based on what you know (not who you know) and "credentials" like where you went to college are irrelevant. If you can write good code and keep your skills up to date, you will never be unemployed for long and will likely earn six figures. In my experience as well, the best programmers are self-taught and continually learn new skills and techniques. They do this on their own out of sheer enjoyment and intellectual curiosity.
It's indeed good for one to be optimistic about one's career prospects and the job security it appears to offer. I'd like to caution, however, that other than in the medical profession, I really don't feel there are too many fields these days which guarantee not being out of work for extended periods of time or which can always promise a six figure income.
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Old 02-15-2009, 10:00 PM
 
1,084 posts, read 1,202,926 times
Reputation: 725
Quote:
Originally Posted by Biskit View Post
I work for a consulting firm. Yeah tell me about it, I was on bench for months and months, but luckily I was working on RFP responses and didn't get laid off. There's not much project work right now, especially in NYC with the entire finance industry down the drain. I hope to ride out the recession in LA, and find something in NY in a couple years, when hopefully this is all over - my worst fear is that it will be even worse in 2 years.
Its tough, and I have to say assume it will be bad in 2 years. I dont know how long you been consulting, but I was at my IT firm during the .com boom/bust. I didnt work on the financial industry, but during that time, our NYC presence reduced from 3 offices in Manhattan to 1/2 floor commuter office in Jersey City. FS revenue during the boom was around 50% profits, and went down to <10% and really hasnt recovered since.

Regarding IT, its a toss up on how good/bad it is currently. The jobs I seen hit the hardest (personally in my company) are QA (Quality Assurance) and Help Desk type jobs moving overseas. There is still a market for good developers that can communicate well. Project Mangement is stable. However, BA (Business Analysts) are getting some attention.
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Old 02-15-2009, 10:02 PM
 
Location: Now in Houston!
923 posts, read 2,479,392 times
Reputation: 633
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miles View Post
It's indeed good for one to be optimistic about one's career prospects and the job security it appears to offer. I'd like to caution, however, that other than in the medical profession, I really don't feel there are too many fields these days which guarantee not being out of work for extended periods of time or which can always promise a six figure income.
A GOOD application developer with up-to-date skills can write his own ticket. It is very difficult to find one who is not already very gainfully employed.

A problem that some unsuccessful developers run into is not keeping their skills up to date. They get content and work several years in a job doing things like they always did, and suddenly find themselves laid off and back in the job market with 8-year old skills, which in the software biz makes them obsolete because all of the current development tools and practices have radically changed in that time.

As I said before, the best developers keep their skills up-to-date and re-train themselves because they truly enjoy it. Those are they guys who are in demand.
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Old 02-15-2009, 10:05 PM
 
3,225 posts, read 5,429,563 times
Reputation: 845
Quote:
Originally Posted by UpstaterInBklyn View Post
A GOOD application developer with up-to-date skills can write his own ticket. It is very difficult to find one who is not already very gainfully employed.

A problem that some unsuccessful developers run into is not keeping their skills up to date. They get content and work several years in a job doing things like they always did, and suddenly find themselves laid off and back in the job market with 8-year old skills, which in the software biz makes them obsolete because all of the current development tools and practices have radically changed in that time.

As I said before, the best developers keep their skills up-to-date and re-train themselves because they truly enjoy it. Those are they guys who are in demand.
okay.
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Old 02-15-2009, 11:58 PM
 
Location: Astoria, Queens, you know the scene
719 posts, read 1,497,318 times
Reputation: 504
Quote:
Originally Posted by gichicago View Post
Its tough, and I have to say assume it will be bad in 2 years. I dont know how long you been consulting, but I was at my IT firm during the .com boom/bust. I didnt work on the financial industry, but during that time, our NYC presence reduced from 3 offices in Manhattan to 1/2 floor commuter office in Jersey City. FS revenue during the boom was around 50% profits, and went down to <10% and really hasnt recovered since.

Regarding IT, its a toss up on how good/bad it is currently. The jobs I seen hit the hardest (personally in my company) are QA (Quality Assurance) and Help Desk type jobs moving overseas. There is still a market for good developers that can communicate well. Project Mangement is stable. However, BA (Business Analysts) are getting some attention.
Agreed. PM's and BA's will always be stable because much of the job is communication rather than technical work that can be outsourced. Luckily I also work in the public sector, which is somewhat more stable than the private sector for projects.
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Old 02-16-2009, 10:24 AM
 
Location: bronx - north
473 posts, read 1,169,925 times
Reputation: 109
[quote=UpstaterInBklyn;7481731]......I'd like to add that programming is one of the few remaining fields that is a true a "meritocracy", where you will get paid and advance your career based on what you know (not who you know) and "credentials" like where you went to college are irrelevant.

If you can write good code and keep your skills up to date, you will never be unemployed for long and will likely earn six figures. In my experience as well, the best programmers are self-taught and continually learn new skills and techniques. They do this on their own out of sheer enjoyment and intellectual curiosity.[/quote]


"MERITOCRACY", I like that and how true it is. One cannot do all the things you mentioned if one doesn't breathe in binary!!!
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Old 02-17-2009, 02:48 PM
 
Location: Nassau, Long Island, NY
15,856 posts, read 17,126,862 times
Reputation: 6523
Quote:
Originally Posted by Biskit View Post
Agreed. PM's and BA's will always be stable because much of the job is communication rather than technical work that can be outsourced. Luckily I also work in the public sector, which is somewhat more stable than the private sector for projects.
Too bad the outsourcers are bringing IN bodies for BA positions.

What do you think of the Indian H-1b body shops that employ "business analysts" here on US soil? Total scam. I sat in on a 2-day "training session" full of "freshers" (Indian term for people who just graduated college) where they were given an overview of what a business analyst does and then instructed to LIE on their resumes and say they have 6-7 years' experience as a business analyst. The body shop even gives them examples of other people's resumes to cut and paste from and gives them scripts for typical questions they would be asked in an interview. Then the body shop calls up employment agencies that deal in contract business analysts and shop their H-1bs as experienced BAs, collect the price from the agency for what a BA with 6-7 years' experience is worth and pay the H-1b BA a beginner's salary and benefits. I don't know what percentage of these "fake" experienced BAs are successful, but there are easily hundreds of Indian firms in the US involved in this, so they must be getting away with the scam on a big level. Is it that easy to be a BA?
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