Quality of life for people who make less than $100K (New York: lawyers, houses)

[pittsteelerfan]

Originally Posted by crisp444

^^ I just completed a pretty intensive tax law class and now I know way more about the IRS than I ever wanted to know. I'll spare the forum of me babbling on why it is highly unlikely that millions upon millions of people are evading taxation by secretly supplementing their income by thousands of dollars per year. The IRS is much more sophisticated than it used to be and stuff like that - which will get by once in a while - will not fly en masse.

I really don't have much more to say if, after I have posted the statistics, your only arguments are 1) that people are lying en masse about their income and 2) that you "disagree" without really explaining why.

Good night.

Whaaaaaaaat? You got literally MILLIONS upon MILLIONS of illegal immigrants, who most ain't paying a dime in taxes! lol The IRS lol They better ressurect Elliot Ness if they plan on 'getting' all that cash money! Are you being serious with that? You must be an 'idealist' at heart.

Disagree? Buddy, a married couple making 75 or 80 grand a piece, ain't "upper middle class", it just ain't. Hey maybe Obama and the rest of those elected officials will tell you it is, that way you're nice and happy with your salary. I got news for you, the middle class in America is disapearing on a daily basis. It's going to come to the point where your 'city' and federal government jobs will be the only middle class jobs left.

How old are you, to think that 160 grand a year is "upper middle class"? Please tell me your age. If you're in your 30's and still think that, appartently you've never been exposed to any kind of money in your life.

[Henna]

Originally Posted by mjohnson4381

Thanks for the props! You guys have been really friendly and helpful. I hope I meet people like you when/if I move there.

We're not this nice in real life. We're on our best anonymous behavior here!

[pittsteelerfan]

P.S. mjohnson4381, If you plan on making a stop off in the Bronx, you better give SuperMario a heads ups. That way he can clear a path out for you, if not, you'll get a 'beat down'! lol lol lol

[crisp444]

I am going to copy and paste something that I have already said to Chelsa:

"That's a cheap shot. Again, I have lived in "expensive" places all around this country and in Europe. Have you? I funded some of my undergraduate education with loans and now I am funding the bulk of my law school education with loans. Have you? I read the census reports and am extremely well-versed in demographic/socioeconomic statistics. Are you?

Clearly my age doesn't have any bearing on what I know about money. I am entering my seventh year of post-secondary education and have had to work for a very long time. I am not a trust fund baby and know the value of the dollar very well. My hard-working middle class parents taught me that at a very young age."

If you don't think I have exposure to money, you are sadly mistaken. I live in one of the most wealthy neighborhood of NYC and have plenty of very-well off friends who are proud to admit that they are well-off. I am done debating this with you because you are grossly out of touch with reality. I mean, really, you discard the best statistics available (from the US Census Bureau) and then try to argue that I am uninformed and naive for believing that someone in the 95th percentile of earnings is upper middle class? Until you come up with arguments that are free of ad hominem attacks, use of the word "ain't," and complete disregard of the statistics in favor of your "opinions," I will not waste my time with this debate.

[pittsteelerfan]

Originally Posted by crisp444

I am going to copy and paste something that I have already said to Chelsa:

"That's a cheap shot. Again, I have lived in "expensive" places all around this country and in Europe. Have you? I funded some of my undergraduate education with loans and now I am funding the bulk of my law school education with loans. Have you? I read the census reports and am extremely well-versed in demographic/socioeconomic statistics. Are you?

Clearly my age doesn't have any bearing on what I know about money. I am entering my seventh year of post-secondary education and have had to work for a very long time. I am not a trust fund baby and know the value of the dollar very well. My hard-working middle class parents taught me that at a very young age."

If you don't think I have exposure to money, you are sadly mistaken. I live in one of the most wealthy neighborhood of NYC and have plenty of very-well off friends who are proud to admit that they are well-off. I am done debating this with you because you are grossly out of touch with reality. I mean, really, you discard the best statistics available (from the US Census Bureau) and then try to argue that I am uninformed and naive for believing that someone in the 95th percentile of earnings is upper middle class? Until you come up with arguments that are free of ad hominem attacks, use of the word "ain't," and complete disregard of the statistics in favor of your "opinions," I will not waste my time with this debate.

The ONLY thing "out of touch" here is your belief that 160 grand a year is "upper middle class". I AIN'T saying no more........

P.S. What is an "ad hominem attack"? Don't be using those fancy "upper middle class" words with me mister! lol

[Chelsa1075]

pitt - this debate can go on forever - I just think Crisp's idea of reality is a bit skewed do to here 24 years on earth and obviously a lot of that time has been spent in books. That wasn't a cheap shot as she stated earlier, but a fact she is 10-20 years younger than the people whose ideas are obviously so different from hers. The statistics that she brings include that of people who are on welfare - they are in a different category altogether - they get help from every corner. Working/middle class do not. Frankly, I don't care what statistics say, I know I do not lead an upper middle class life style. It is almost as if she is saying if we live above poverty level we should be thankful. Wanting to send your child to a school in a safe neighborhood, where you can actually afford the home, tax and commute to the city is just way too much to ask. I just think when she has a little more life experience she will see things differently. If not then I hope that she completely plans on giving up most of her salary that she will get as an attorney, so she can prove the point that you can live in NY COMFORTABLY on 50K.

[Chelsa1075]

You lived in Miami - you really have to stop comparing your Middle Class life to that of a NYer - these things that we are speaking about are basic - I said nothing of a 2000sq. ft. home - just a regular home, but I will add that most Middle Class homes outside of NYC are in the 2000sq. ft. range, but again not the point. You are basically making my point by saying that all of the things a NYer has to struggle to get are choices, but my point is that most of Middle Class America outside of NY can have these things with relative ease. You are welcome to bring all your statistics again and again, but those of us who are speaking are speaking from experience. And more and more you sound like you are throwing a tantrum because we disagree with you views. I feel like I'm arguing a point with my 11 year old son.

[Chelsa1075]

Originally Posted by crisp444

I don't need to compare what X dollars buys in Atlanta with what X dollars buys in NYC. Indeces such as the Price Parity Index say nothing about class and thus are immaterial to a discussion on the class to which a person making X dollars pertains. The worker earning X dollars may "feel" upper middle class in Atlanta yet "feel" lower middle class in NYC, but in the end, how that worker "feels" doesn't matter because income is an empirical measure in which allowing motion into the picture only serves to distort and confuse. The couple which together make $150,000 will be upper middle class in their studio in Monaco, upper middle class in their 1 bedroom condo in Park Slope, upper middle class in their 3 bedroom home in New Jersey, and upper middle class in their McMansion in Dallas.

And yes, I am frustrated at the out-of-touch-with-reality, self-entitled attitude that many Americans, including many "new money" upper class and upper middle class people have towards class. It's always "I deserve this" and "I should have" that.. and then some of these people have the gall to claim that they're in the same financial situation as "everybody else," and thus are "regular" middle class people. The amount of wealth in this country is fantastic, but the attitudes a small but vocal minority of the affluent possess are quite disturbing.

I feel most comfortable with professional, affluent people (I did choose law as my profession and do live in Brooklyn Heights), but unfortunately being around this group gives me exposure to much of the attitudes I have described above. I am always sure to have my numbers on hand to dispell some of the nonsense I hear, and quite truthfully, I have gotten a lot of compliments from people for quieting obnoxious people in their twenties who complain about being "lower middle class" all while living in their 1 bedroom Murray Hill apartment on a $90,000 salary or about how you "need $200,000/year to make it in Manhattan." True story!

Honestly - why are you so angry that I disagree with you - How can you interpret my life for me. I think you need to come to my house for dinner just to see exactly how upper middle class I am.

[Moderate Guy]

Originally Posted by Chelsa1075

Honestly - why are you so angry that I disagree with you - How can you interpret my life for me. I think you need to come to my house for dinner just to see exactly how upper middle class I am.

I guesst that invitation does not extend to a lower class poster ex-friend like me too?

[Chelsa1075]

That is fair, but I don't think that the AVERAGE Middle class family would consider going to the movies a luxury or signing your kid up for little league for that matter. Can life be had living on a lower salary of course - no one said it couldn't, but for someone else to say that you are middle class, because the rest of the country says you are is outrageous. I guess we all have different ideas about what Middle Class is and where we fall into it. oh and a quick question for you, is your 45K before or after taxes? - I'm comparing middle class to lets say Beaver Cleaver - not 90210.