Quality of life for people who make less than $100K (New York: for rent, co-op)
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No one can agree upon a definition of "middle-class" or "rich" or whatever...hell, the many drivers of the ubiquitous blk Merc S550s which are commonly used to ferry NYC financiers around Manhattan usually earn $150K-250K/yr
But always interesting to compare standard of living of financiers who work in offices of various investment banks or hedge funds or private equity funds...compare SOL among Manhattan/Greenwich, SiliconValley, BeverlyHills and Chicago (the US' major financial epicenters)...for singles or families earning $500K/yr, $1MM/yr, $5MM/yr, $10MM/yr....
What's most astonishing is how abysmally low daily SOL is in Manhattan vs its peers, even at those rather high income levels...among those who fit classic definition of super-yuppies (and work for similar-caliber firms)....and financial industry has world's highest no. of <<40yo guys w/7 and 8-fig paychecks
But what money doesn't buy in NYC, unlike rest of US, is stuff like spacious underground garages for key office bldgs, valet pkg in front of Daniel/Per Se (or other relevant dining spots), tolerable weather (vs CA), etc....and condos in TimeWarner or 15 CPW cost ?4X any comparables in SF or LA or Chic
Thus, most value-conscious, middle-income (by stds of HF industry) financiers flee Manhattan for far cheaper suburbs like Greenwich....and the car nuts flee NYC region for offices in SF/BH, where one can commute daily in a new AMG or Ferrari, w/far more interesting nearby roads for wkend drives...
Thus, most value-conscious, middle-income (by stds of HF industry) financiers flee Manhattan for far cheaper suburbs like Greenwich....and the car nuts flee NYC region for offices in SF/BH, where one can commute daily in a new AMG or Ferrari, w/far more interesting nearby roads for wkend drives...
I'm sure that someday I'll look out my window and see that exodus that you consistenly herald.
Our quality of life is good but that's because I and we have been smart about it. Example, if your income isn't enough to afford to expenses that go along with renting, plain and simple don't do it, especially if you have a good relationship with your family.
For all the stigma that comes with living at home from some people in our society, when all is said and done, family is the most important thing, especially when the other option is killing yourself financially just to live in Manhattan or some trendy neighborhood.
No one can agree upon a definition of "middle-class" or "rich" or whatever...hell, the many drivers of the ubiquitous blk Merc S550s which are commonly used to ferry NYC financiers around Manhattan usually earn $150K-250K/yr
But always interesting to compare standard of living of financiers who work in offices of various investment banks or hedge funds or private equity funds...compare SOL among Manhattan/Greenwich, SiliconValley, BeverlyHills and Chicago (the US' major financial epicenters)...for singles or families earning $500K/yr, $1MM/yr, $5MM/yr, $10MM/yr....
What's most astonishing is how abysmally low daily SOL is in Manhattan vs its peers, even at those rather high income levels...among those who fit classic definition of super-yuppies (and work for similar-caliber firms)....and financial industry has world's highest no. of <<40yo guys w/7 and 8-fig paychecks
But what money doesn't buy in NYC, unlike rest of US, is stuff like spacious underground garages for key office bldgs, valet pkg in front of Daniel/Per Se (or other relevant dining spots), tolerable weather (vs CA), etc....and condos in TimeWarner or 15 CPW cost ?4X any comparables in SF or LA or Chic
Thus, most value-conscious, middle-income (by stds of HF industry) financiers flee Manhattan for far cheaper suburbs like Greenwich....and the car nuts flee NYC region for offices in SF/BH, where one can commute daily in a new AMG or Ferrari, w/far more interesting nearby roads for wkend drives...
Your posts are funny in a nonsensical way but,
They cost 4X more than SF, LA or Chic comparables because they're all vastly inferior cities with lower amenities, luxury, QOL and demand. Supply and demand.
Where in SF, Chic or LA can you live in a world-renowned luxury condominium (TimeWarner) with foreign dignitaries, elites, take the elevator down and dine at Per Se, Masa, go down a level and shop at high end retailers, go down a level and watch the arts at the theatre, and go down another level and grocery shop at whole foods?
Certainly not in the other cities.
Last edited by Americanboy; 02-09-2009 at 12:40 AM..
They cost 4X more than SF, LA or Chic comparables because they're all vastly inferior cities with lower amenities, luxury, QOL and demand. Supply and demand.
Where in SF, Chic or LA can you live in a world-renowned luxury condominium (TimeWarner) with foreign dignitaries, elites, take the elevator down and dine at Per Se, Masa, go down a level and shop at high end retailers, go down a level and watch the arts at the theatre, and go down another level and grocery shop at whole foods?
Certainly not in the other cities.
We're talking about gross annual income less than $100,000. Certainly not consistent with living in the Time-Warner Center.
50K puts you in the 25% bracket for fed taxes (I believe) - that does not include NYC and NYS taxes which will run you more. You are now down to about to between 2800 a month. This is not including any medical/dental/vision/401k plan that your company offers. Once all of that is factored in the number will be less. So, figure out what kind of life you want to lead with the money you have and then you can determine whether you will lead a middle class life style. My guess is you probably won't. If you look at my thread about taxes being the bane of my existence, you will see that they have done studies that reported that 126K is the equivalent to 50K in Houston and 60K is the equivalent to 23K in Atlanta. I'm not saying to move to any of these places, but just thought it would put things into perspective for you. Just to add to the above post - I don't know how much cheaper living in Brooklyn or queens will really be. I pay a pretty hight rent for my apartment.
I grew up in Hawaii and now live in New York City: two extremely expensive places where it's very difficult to be "conventionally" middle-class. In the end, it's all about expectations. You simply cannot compare a middle-class existence in NYC or Hawaii to Houston or Atlanta. This is further complicated by the difference of being middle-class in Manhattan vs. being middle-class in Queens.
If by middle-class you mean living alone in a nice neighborhood (if you're single) or a bedroom for every child (if you have kids), it's very difficult to live a middle-class lifestyle in New York. You do need close to $100K to live alone in a nice (but not luxurious) one-bedroom in the trendy parts of Manhattan.
If you spend your time thinking about what you could have if you lived elsewhere you'll just make yourself miserable (or crazy). Living here demands sacrifice, even for the comparatively rich. You have to do your own cost-benefit analysis to determine if it's worth the sacrifice.
Obviously, this was geared toward me in part, since I referenced Atlanta and Houston. Saying you can't compare these places is fair, but you can't compare Hawaii to NY either, two places being expensive doesn't make them alike. I wasn't trying to compare the cities themselves as far as culture goes there is nothing, nothing, nothing like NYC, but if you can't afford to enjoy the things that NYC offers, if that is the whole reason behind you moving here, then I ask what is the point. That is all I'm saying - I would never detur someone from moving here - everyone has their prerogative. But I would surely be ticked off if someone told me "oh you sure can live here on that money with no problem". Yes, you can live here on 50K, but even being single, it would be hard to enjoy the "City Life" on that amount. I just may not know how to stretch a dollar out the way some people do.
I've read in a few places that, in order to be middle class in NYC, you have to make at least $100K. Is that true? Or are they talking about couples?
no, as a single person or a couple without a child you don't need to make $100,000 to live comfortably in most of NYC.You would only need to make that amount to be comfortable if you insisted on living in certain trendy neighborhoods, mostly in Manhattan and neighborhoods in Brooklyn and Queens that are just over the river.The vast majority of New York City residents manage to live comfortably on considerably less.
A lot depends on your attitude. It seems like many like to complain about how much more lifestyle bang they could get for their buck in less expensive parts of the country.My attitude is that I couldn't live better anywhere else no matter how much more discretionary income I might have because most of what New York offers simply doesn't exist in those other places.
You are absolutely right Blue! That being said a person moving here from another state doesn't (not sure if that is the case with the OP) usually go to St. Albans(Q), Breezy PT(B), Inwood(M) - remember that I said usually, not always. These places are all much more affordable places to live, but not all that convenient as far as commuting to the city. Even though Inwood is in NYC it takes a friend of mine almost an hour to get to work in midtown. There are many other places to go where crime and safety may then come into question. Again, I don't think a person coming from out of state looks at these places as viable places to live. So, as you stated those other places stated have nothing on NYC, but when you can't enjoy the Broadway Shows, Museums or night life (and this list could go on forever, because there is so much to do in NYC), because you don't have the resources, then what? Here you will be living in the big city, but looking at everything from afar. Would you move to another city for that?
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) financiers flee Manhattan for far cheaper suburbs like Greenwich....and the car nuts flee NYC region for offices in SF/BH, where one can commute daily in a new AMG or Ferrari, w/far more interesting nearby roads for wkend drives...
