Quality of life for people who make less than $100K (New York: lease, health insurance)

[pittsteelerfan]

Originally Posted by Chelsa1075

that is what I'm sayin man - I'm not talking about going out to buy gucci and Louis - I just want the basic stuff that the average middle class american can get anywhere else. YES - I know no where else is NYC, but AGAIN, if you can't afford to enjoy those things because you are broke from paying rent, isn't that just like living in um atlanta without the amenities????

EXACTLY right you are! For the people who were born and raised in nyc, it's home and they don't know any different (plus all their family and friends are in nyc). But for someone else to move to nyc and have their standard of living drop (unless they have a great job), after a few years of long, crowded subway rides to the more 'desirable nyc locations', it will get old and overrated.

What good is having some of the world's best and most exclusive restaurants , if all you can afford is a couple slices of pizza in Brooklyn or Queens? Or not being able to afford to sit down and have a few drinks in the bars?

Tell someone your living in NYC, and I bet images from tv or the movies pop in their head. Especially if they're from small town out in the middle of nowhere. But the reality is alot different for us who know what life is like in nyc. Anybody who was born and raised outside of nyc, but was still was raised in a major city or metro area, will probably grow tired of it quicker than somebody who was raised in a cornfield somewhere.

[pittsteelerfan]

Originally Posted by Chelsa1075

NY Trumped Miami in cost of living always, but I'm not here to debate that. You are missing my point - my point is that obviously MIDDLE CLASSDOM was a far stretch for them too. It is hard to compare the 2 places anyway, because what you get for your money is so different. You may pay a similar price in rent (and that is a far stretch), but what do you get for your dollar a smaller more cramped home with no amenities, versus where you grew up and the amenities were standard. I have a feeling you and I could go on and on about this, but (and this not a shot at you personally) I think that wisdom does come with age and I think that because of your age you have not had enough life experience here to know what really qualifies as Middle class.

I have to agree with you again. What's ok for a kid in their 20's, might not be ok for someone in their 30's, and almost certainly not for someone in their 40's.

Good point on the rent too. Ya, you can pay 1500 dollars for rent in ANY city in America. The big difference being, is what you'll get for that 1500 dollars a month rent.

[pittsteelerfan]

Originally Posted by crisp444

That's a cheap shot. Again, I have lived in "expensive" places all around this country and in Europe. Have you? I funded some of my undergraduate education with loans and now I am funding the bulk of my law school education with loans. Have you? I read the census reports and am extremely well-versed in demographic/socioeconomic statistics. Are you?

Clearly my age doesn't have any bearing on what I know about money. I am entering my seventh year of post-secondary education and have had to work for a very long time. I am not a trust fund baby and know the value of the dollar very well. My hard-working middle class parents taught me that at a very young age.

If you want to live in your "lower middle class" fantasy-land with your $170,000 annual household income, go right ahead, but don't try to pass off your anecdotes as "truth" when the numbers are so clearly not in your favor. Again, a "regular" middle class household does not earn more than 95% of American households as yours does. My statistics speak for themselves, and my life experience is every bit as compelling as yours in our discussion of what is "middle class."

Your age doesn't mean you don't know anything about money (atleast that's not what I'm saying). But you will see, and I'm sure most on here will agree, as you get older, certain things that you were able to deal with as a 'young adult', will be harder to do as you age. Like having roommates, or living in 'undesirable neighborhoods', etc.

I'm not saying you are doing any of these things, I'm just giving examples. What you consider to be 'good' or 'ok' now, might be different in ten years or so down the road. Especially if you get married and start having kids. That's all I'm trying to say.

[crisp444]

I agree that as you get older, you start wanting more privacy. It is for that reason that many non-wealthy people move from the city to the suburbs or outer boroughs eventually. It doesn't really have anything to do with class, though. A 25 year old making $100,000 and sharing a three bedroom loft in Tribeca is upper middle class just as a 45 year old with a teenager living in a single family home in New Jersey on the same salary is upper middle class.

[bluedog2]

Originally Posted by pittsteelerfan

EXACTLY right you are! For the people who were born and raised in nyc, it's home and they don't know any different (plus all their family and friends are in nyc). But for someone else to move to nyc and have their standard of living drop (unless they have a great job), after a few years of long, crowded subway rides to the more 'desirable nyc locations', it will get old and overrated.

What good is having some of the world's best and most exclusive restaurants , if all you can afford is a couple slices of pizza in Brooklyn or Queens? Or not being able to afford to sit down and have a few drinks in the bars?

Tell someone your living in NYC, and I bet images from tv or the movies pop in their head. Especially if they're from small town out in the middle of nowhere. But the reality is alot different for us who know what life is like in nyc. Anybody who was born and raised outside of nyc, but was still was raised in a major city or metro area, will probably grow tired of it quicker than somebody who was raised in a cornfield somewhere.

Sorry,but this is not always the case at all.

I grew up in Boston,which is certainly another major US city, and one that enjoys a significant amount of popularity of it's own. I came to New York to go to college 35 years ago and have never wanted to leave. I do love to go back to Boston to visit,however,and also enjoy almost all major cities.

I got my MSW at Columbia and was a social worker for 12 years and have been a NYC schoolteacher for the last 10 years. I have never made more than I make right now,which is a little over 70 . I lived in Manhattan in the middle of it all for many years and now live in one of "the outer boroughs".i live and teach in "worst" outer borough, The Bronx.I have a great life by anyone's standards and I never get tired of New York,the subways,the streets or any of it.

I eat in some of the best restaurants in the world because most of them are not in Manhattan and don't cost that much.I hang out in bars frequently all over the city and drink as much as i want,which is probably too much sometimes.I like Italy so I go there every year or two. It's my favorite vacation place.

I never expected or would want the TV or movie image NY life but I really do have a great life and i never get tired of it.

[Henna]

Originally Posted by bluedog2

Sorry,but this is not always the case at all.

I never get tired of New York,the subways,the streets or any of it.

I eat in some of the best restaurants in the world because most of them are not in Manhattan and don't cost that much.I hang out in bars frequently all over the city and drink as much as i want,which is probably too much sometimes.

Excellent post! and congrats.

[bmwguydc]

Originally Posted by crisp444

I agree that as you get older, you start wanting more privacy. It is for that reason that many non-wealthy people move from the city to the suburbs or outer boroughs eventually. It doesn't really have anything to do with class, though. A 25 year old making $100,000 and sharing a three bedroom loft in Tribeca is upper middle class just as a 45 year old with a teenager living in a single family home in New Jersey on the same salary is upper middle class.

Not in New Jersey on $100k with kids -- that's middle class, not upper middle class. Children add huge expenses that single people do not have which diminishes one's disposable income and ability to enjoy an upper middle class lifestyle. A single on $100k is better off than a family of three, no matter where in the metro area they live. It's not a function of defining a statistic as being an arbitrary cut-off point for being upper middle class, no matter how many demographers try to sell that as being a basis in fact. In reality, it's a floating statistic that must take into account relative cost of living and family size to make a more accurate delineation.

[bmwguydc]

Originally Posted by bluedog2

I never expected or would want the TV or movie image NY life but I really do have a great life and i never get tired of it.

You certainly do! And, New York is better off because of your career of service to the city in fields that many overlook as critical.

[crisp444]

Originally Posted by bmwguydc

It's a myth to tell someone that they're wealthy when they want a nice house in good neighborhood for their families.

What your money buys has little bearing on socieconomic status. What matters is how you earn your money and how much of it you earn (or, in very limited instances, how much money your family and/or trust pays to you).

People aren't wealthy just because they want all the stuff you named. If people don't like the idea of spending $500,000+ for a 2,000 square foot home in a good school district that is a 45-60 minute commute from Midtown, and want to "feel" wealthier, they should not live in this area at all. Thankfully there are plenty of people living all over the city and in the suburbs that are content with their lifestyle to drown out the "woe-is-me; I make $150,000 but don't even feel middle class!" crowd with that often causes a cacaphony on these forums.

[pittsteelerfan]

Originally Posted by bluedog2

Sorry,but this is not always the case at all.

I grew up in Boston,which is certainly another major US city, and one that enjoys a significant amount of popularity of it's own. I came to New York to go to college 35 years ago and have never wanted to leave. I do love to go back to Boston to visit,however,and also enjoy almost all major cities.

I got my MSW at Columbia and was a social worker for 12 years and have been a NYC schoolteacher for the last 10 years. I have never made more than I make right now,which is a little over 70 . I lived in Manhattan in the middle of it all for many years and now live in one of "the outer boroughs".i live and teach in "worst" outer borough, The Bronx.I have a great life by anyone's standards and I never get tired of New York,the subways,the streets or any of it.

I eat in some of the best restaurants in the world because most of them are not in Manhattan and don't cost that much.I hang out in bars frequently all over the city and drink as much as i want,which is probably too much sometimes.I like Italy so I go there every year or two. It's my favorite vacation place.

I never expected or would want the TV or movie image NY life but I really do have a great life and i never get tired of it.

Nobody was saying "everyone", and if I implied that, I didn't mean too.

I'm not going to sit here and act like I spent anywhere near the time you have in nyc. But, in my honest and humble opinon, the food there is kinda overrated. I'm not saying that the high-end stuff is (although I never did eat any high-end stuff), but the average hole-in-the-wall in the outerboroughs? Even the pizza, is hit-an-miss. Chinese food, same thing. "World Class Dining" in Brooklyn, Queens or the Bronx? Maybe it does exists, not much if it does though. There's definately a big variety there though, food from all over the world.

As far as you "drinking all over the city"? There again, maybe we drink different? Your salary would not allow you to be out 'whining and dining' all over the city all the time. Unless you're living in some small room that you rent off someone. And even then, 70 grand is still, only 70 grand!

Thing is, I've been to nyc quite a few times, and I KNOW for a fact that 70 grand doesn't allow that type of lifestyle unless your cutting corners in the 'housing dept', and your living standard would be have to be far below what most people would consider 'good' for someone making 70 grand a year.