Is gentrification being halted by this recession? (New York, Hamburg: middle-class, house)

[otters21]

Originally Posted by Mekitor

Other cities that are into suburban sprawl, like Phoenix and sprawling Vegas are set to loose the most.

Oh, I agree . I cannot understand how those SPRAWLING cities draw people in the first place. Flimsy built cookie cutter Mcmansions, bland strip malls , 2 or 3 SUVs per family and having to drive just to get a loaf of bread. Plus constant sunshine ( not that I'm knocking it, but I like varied weather including rain and snow and having 4 seasons) Also imagine the expense living there especially in southern Calif. No thank you!

[SobroGuy]

Well to each his own, NYC is not for everyone, and neither is middle America...you gotta go where you are happy. I am happy in NYC (the Bronx!), and I explain the pros and cons, thats all you can do.

[DAS]

Originally Posted by SobroGuy

Well to each his own, NYC is not for everyone, and neither is middle America...you gotta go where you are happy. I am happy in NYC (the Bronx!), and I explain the pros and cons, thats all you can do.

NYC is not for everyone, but mostly everyone in our mega region will visit NYC pretty regularly.

[tpk-nyc]

Regarding gentrification/revitalization, one could argue the New York is becoming what it was designed to be 100 years ago. Harlem, Washington Heights/Inwood, the Grand Concourse and Bed-Stuy were not built to be low-income neighborhoods. Many of the buildings there are quite spectacular, architecturally speaking. They are far nicer than the tenements in Hell's Kitchen and the East Village/LES. I don't mean to suggest that the people who live there now should be forced to leave, but that these neighborhoods were always intended to be beautiful.

New Yorkers are spoiled by proximity. New York is a 19th century city that was retrofitted, and forever changed, by 20th century technology. With the advent of mid-/high-rise buildings, is was possible for many people to live very close to Midtown. However, New York was originally modeled on London. Having high-end housing on the Grand Concourse or in Bed-Stuy makes sense if you think of it in the context of London where the majority of people commute one-hour or more, each way, by subway. If someone tells me that he has a one-hour subway ride in the morning I offer my condolences (seriously). It seems like cruel and unusual punishment.

In Manhattan, quite a lot of people can walk to work or walk home after seeing a show, etc. It's so common, in fact, that those who can't walk everywhere, feel cheated and resentful of those who can. This would be an absurd expectation in London where everything is so spread out that hardly anyone can walk to work.

We're also spoiled by restaurants. In the 19th century, almost no one ate in restaurants. An original intention of the subway was to allow bankers on Wall Street to go home for lunch. Women stayed at home and all entertaining was done in your own dining room or parlor. This is why people needed to have a brownstone or classic-six and why so many were built in outlying areas (serviced by the subway). The restaurants that did exist were almost exclusively for (very rich) men.

Once it became socially acceptable (and then fashionable) to eat in restaurants, people wanted to live close to the restaurants. When you live in public (restaurants, cafes, bars, etc.), proximity becomes more important than private space.

Manhattan is unique in that it's the center of an enormous city but it has the convenience of a small town. Being unique, however, also means it's an anomaly. For the once beautiful outlying areas to be revitalized, people will have to accept that they were always intended to be far from the center. I understand this intellectually, but have a hard time accepting it emotionally. I'm spoiled. I'm very resentful that my East Village apartment isn't closer to the subway (fate is cruel!). Harlem seems so very far away (even though the A-Train is faster than my morning hike to the subway).

[SobroGuy]

Great post...and I like your speculation, or rather assertion, that the original NY, where the Grand Concourse and Bed-Stuy is returning back to its middle class, storied roots. I agree with that statement, as these areas are now being repositioned back to their original purpose...the source of quality housing. Good post!

[nativebrooklynite]

Originally Posted by otters21

Oh, I agree . I cannot understand how those SPRAWLING cities draw people in the first place. Flimsy built cookie cutter Mcmansions, bland strip malls , 2 or 3 SUVs per family and having to drive just to get a loaf of bread. Plus constant sunshine ( not that I'm knocking it, but I like varied weather including rain and snow and having 4 seasons) Also imagine the expense living there especially in southern Calif. No thank you!

Cheap cost of living, really. I lived in a luxury apt in Tempe, AZ for $900, for a 1 bedroom five minutes from downtown. And that was considered expensive. Complex had full amenities--state of the art gym, two pools, a sauna, etc. I would easily be paying well over $3k for a place like that in Manhattan. And for people not used to anything but small town life it looks very good. The thing is, there really is only the illusion of a middle class out there. I lived like the Queen of Sheba compared to my co-workers, all of whom were younger than me and living hand to mouth in crapholes like Mesa because they had multiple kids to feed, sky high car insurance, etc. (I believe AZ has the worst rates in the nation behind NJ, due to lots of illegal immigrants with no insurance).

Back to the topic though, I believe in places like Phoenix anyone with even the slightest bit of means will go back where they came from, like I did, or go where there are jobs and the less well off (like my co-workers) will be left behind. But NYC? Gentrification/revitalization will never stop in NYC regardless of the economy. Just witness the number of people posting about how they want to move here even now in this economy. Like others have said this stuff goes in cycles, but NYC will always be the "It" city, this town is pretty much the center of everything and people will always be attracted to that.

[bluedog2]

And don't forget the Europeans, who seem to ramping up their invasion as a result of the downturn because things are even worse there and everything here is dirt cheap to them.

NY is a good place for them to hole up and ride things out.

[Viralmd]

Originally Posted by bluedog2

And don't forget the Europeans, who seem to ramping up their invasion as a result of the downturn because things are even worse there and everything here is dirt cheap to them.

NY is a good place for them to hole up and ride things out.

Ummm...actually no! The Euro is MUCH weaker now compared to where it was in, say, June of '08. The US is no longer the bargain it was then.

[bluedog2]

Maybe they haven't realized it yet because they still seem to think it's a lot cheaper here.

[vitalove]

Not so true anymore. Many of them are now selling the coops and condos that they purchased for extra cash.