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Old 05-19-2017, 04:40 AM
 
3,333 posts, read 3,280,911 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pierrepont7731 View Post
Nothing that you said is earth shattering. This thread is about white middle class neighborhoods, and Howard Beach is one of them.
His point is still valid.

I grew up in Bergen Beach. The change over the last 15 years in the surrounding neighborhoods has been outstanding. In the next 10 years, even Bergen Beach will no longer be 99% White. It is what it is. Don't be a snowflake about it.

Not only are white a minority in NYC but that number also includes Hasidic and Orthodox Jews. Take those cohorts out o the numbers and there are even less "Whites".
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Old 05-19-2017, 08:53 AM
 
Location: New York, NY
7,548 posts, read 2,685,297 times
Reputation: 2819
Quote:
Originally Posted by wawaweewa View Post
His point is still valid.

I grew up in Bergen Beach. The change over the last 15 years in the surrounding neighborhoods has been outstanding. In the next 10 years, even Bergen Beach will no longer be 99% White. It is what it is. Don't be a snowflake about it.

Not only are white a minority in NYC but that number also includes Hasidic and Orthodox Jews. Take those cohorts out o the numbers and there are even less "Whites".
As I said before none of this is earth shattering. You're talking to an "ethnic" white, who grew up in an "ethnic white neighborhood" and saw such changes many years ago. The only areas that have really been able to hold on are those that are relatively far out, isolated and expensive. Bergen Beach would be an example. Due to a restriction on immigration from certain places and the old time ethnic groups moving on, this is to be expected. Given those circumstances, Howard Beach is still a pretty white neighborhood, as is Bergen Beach and neighboring Mill Basin for that matter. I used to hang out in Mill Basin with friends who lived there when it was far less "welcoming of minorities", so you're not talking to someone who isn't in the know. Shall I go on about other such neighborhoods? Gerritsen Beach was another place where I had plenty of friends growing up, along with Bay Ridge. Some of those people moved to Howard Beach which isn't shocking. Similar neighborhood with a similar ethnic makeup... Just more expensive. Hell I can remember even back in the 90s white flight happening in Old Mill Basin then and the terror when folks saw a black face.

One of my friend's mothers remarked about how they had "left behind" a certain ethnic group and had moved further south. All of those people move to similar areas, or leave NYC entirely to Long Island or NJ or Westchester. Howard Beach will hold on for a while longer unless the residents there want to move on.

Last edited by pierrepont7731; 05-19-2017 at 09:02 AM..
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Old 05-19-2017, 10:13 AM
 
Location: ATX
227 posts, read 79,441 times
Reputation: 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by pierrepont7731 View Post
You have the audacity to ask me such a question when you're in Texas? For starters, I have friends that lived in Howard Beach that just recently moved to Long Island, and guess what? They were all white. In 2017, a white majority neighborhood with some minorities in it is basically the norm.
I've been in Texas for 3 years and before that in New York (off and on) for over 35 years. So unless you you've been alive as long as I have and have lived in Queens most of your life, not only do I have audacity, I have authority to ask as well. And still you haven't answered basic questions about what is even around that Starbucks which I have frequented for years, know the older Italians that live there and the younger (and browner) people that have moved to Howard Beach. You reference a newspaper article about harassment that is ridiculous because the people I know in Howard Beach aren't a bunch of racist pigs. They are decent working-class people who could care less who lives in their neighborhood. I'm surprised that people that live in Howard Beach didn't jump down your throat for that reference.

No one said Howard Beach isn't a white majority. If you go back to the beginning, I've said that Howard Beach, like EVERY neighborhood in New York, is diversifying because whites are a minority in New York City. So to suggest to the poster that they should move to HB to get that middle-class white experience is like suggesting to a Black person to move to Harlem or a Chinese to move to Chinatown. If the poster wants an authentic white working-class experience, he/she should move to Suffix County or upstate to Westchester/Rockland/Orange. You see, even in Texas, I know a great deal about New York because I lived there the vast majority of my life.

Now that I think about it, they could just move to Austin.
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Old 05-19-2017, 10:19 AM
 
Location: New York, NY
7,548 posts, read 2,685,297 times
Reputation: 2819
Quote:
Originally Posted by TallBull View Post
I've been in Texas for 3 years and before that in New York (off and on) for over 35 years. So unless you you've been alive as long as I have and have lived in Queens most of your life, not only do I have audacity, I have authority to ask as well. And still you haven't answered basic questions about what is even around that Starbucks which I have frequented for years, know the older Italians that live there and the younger (and browner) people that have moved to Howard Beach. You reference a newspaper article about harassment that is ridiculous because the people I know in Howard Beach aren't a bunch of racist pigs. They are decent working-class people who could care less who lives in their neighborhood. I'm surprised that people that live in Howard Beach didn't jump down your throat for that reference.

No one said Howard Beach isn't a white majority. If you go back to the beginning, I've said that Howard Beach, like EVERY neighborhood in New York, is diversifying because whites are a minority in New York City. So to suggest to the poster that they should move to HB to get that middle-class white experience is like suggesting to a Black person to move to Harlem or a Chinese to move to Chinatown. If the poster wants an authentic white working-class experience, he/she should move to Suffix County or upstate to Westchester/Rockland/Orange. You see, even in Texas, I know a great deal about New York because I lived there the vast majority of my life.

Now that I think about it, they could just move to Austin.
So now you're trying to pull a fast one and discourage white people from moving to Howard Beach as if white flight is taking place? Don't be ridiculous! If we were going to do that, then that would disqualify just about every white middle class neighborhood in Queens! The exception would be areas like Neponsit, Breezy Point and Roxbury in the Rockaways. I don't need to answer your stupid question about Starbucks as if that makes any difference about what I know and don't know since I quite frankly can't stand anything about Starbucks. I could reference a few eateries there as well, and then ask you stupid questions about whether or not you're familiar with those places, etc. Dumb question all around that has no bearing on what I know about the area and similar areas across NYC. For the record, I'm a native New Yorker, born and raised here, and outside of living abroad in other countries, have lived here my entire life, so yes, you do have some audacity.
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Old 05-19-2017, 10:39 AM
 
Location: ATX
227 posts, read 79,441 times
Reputation: 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by pierrepont7731 View Post
So now you're trying to pull a fast one and discourage white people from moving to Howard Beach as if white flight is taking place? Don't be ridiculous! If we were going to do that, then that would disqualify just about every white middle class neighborhood in Queens! The exception would be areas like Neponsit, Breezy Point and Roxbury in the Rockaways. I don't need to answer your stupid question about Starbucks as if that makes any difference about what I know and don't know since I quite frankly can't stand anything about Starbucks. I could reference a few eateries there as well, and then ask you stupid questions about whether or not you're familiar with those places, etc. Dumb question all around that has no bearing on what I know about the area and similar areas across NYC. For the record, I'm a native New Yorker, born and raised here, and outside of living abroad in other countries, have lived here my entire life, so yes, you do have some audacity.
If you want to have a smart debate, that's fine with me. But once again, you're in the habit of replacing my words with your own. So now I'm discouraging white people from moving to Howard Beach? Really? And what do I gain from doing that?
Yeah, I would consider a question stupid as well if I couldn't answer it or google some random articles. I asked the question because you're coming off as knowledgeable of the area when in fact you are not! You reference some stupid newspaper article to prove what? That there are still some a**holes in Howard Beach versus the majority of good people living there?

Your understanding of demographics seems shoddy at best. New York City is not a majority white city. From the richest to the poorest neighborhoods, people from all over the world are populating those neighborhoods. And gentrification has transformed neighborhoods than very few people ever thought could be transformed. There are no sacred cow neighborhoods. A block or two? Maybe. But entire neighborhoods? C'mon!
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Old 05-19-2017, 10:44 AM
 
Location: New York, NY
7,548 posts, read 2,685,297 times
Reputation: 2819
Quote:
Originally Posted by TallBull View Post
If you want to have a smart debate, that's fine with me. But once again, you're in the habit of replacing my words with your own. So now I'm discouraging white people from moving to Howard Beach? Really? And what do I gain from doing that?
Yeah, I would consider a question stupid as well if I couldn't answer it or google some random articles. I asked the question because you're coming off as knowledgeable of the area when in fact you are not! You reference some stupid newspaper article to prove what? That there are still some a**holes in Howard Beach versus the majority of good people living there?

Your understanding of demographics seems shoddy at best. New York City is not a majority white city. From the richest to the poorest neighborhoods, people from all over the world are populating those neighborhoods. And gentrification has transformed neighborhoods than very few people ever thought could be transformed. There are no sacred cow neighborhoods. A block or two? Maybe. But entire neighborhoods? C'mon!
I'm not the one that posted the article so that's a lame come back. My understanding of demographics is just fine, certainly far better than someone living in Texas (I don't care how long you've "come back and forth", you DON'T live here now). Again, nothing you've stated is shocking. Thank God you moved to Texas. Please stay there! Yes, neighborhoods are diversifying, but that isn't just restricted to white areas.
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Old 05-19-2017, 11:05 AM
 
Location: ATX
227 posts, read 79,441 times
Reputation: 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by pierrepont7731 View Post
I'm not the one that posted the article so that's a lame come back. My understanding of demographics is just fine, certainly far better than someone living in Texas (I don't care how long you've "come back and forth", you DON'T live here now). Again, nothing you've stated is shocking. Thank God you moved to Texas. Please stay there! Yes, neighborhoods are diversifying, but that isn't just restricted to white areas.
:-) Take a tip: when you start throwing insults instead of intelligence, you've lost the debate. You reply to me that I said I'm discouraging white people from moving to Howard Beach. Find the text where I said that.

I'm not here to say anything shocking. I gave my opinion about a neighborhood that I'm very familiar with. You're the one taking it personal with your, "Thank God you moved to Texas". :-). This is how irrational you are - So it's okay for you to opine about neighborhoods you DON'T live in at the moment, but I can't do the same because I don't live in the same city or state? Wow! Bottom line is that neither of us live or work in HB so we can ONLY draw from our experience or what we read. Take a deep breath and re-read what I just wrote, son!

Then you end your ridiculous rant with, "neighborhoods are diversifying, but that isn't just restricted to white areas." - Hilarious! Didn't I just give you two examples in my prior post of this phenomenon - Harlem and Chinatown?

Please stop with the replies now! You're embarrassing yourself and New York.
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Old 05-19-2017, 11:14 AM
 
Location: New York, NY
7,548 posts, read 2,685,297 times
Reputation: 2819
Quote:
Originally Posted by TallBull View Post
:-) Take a tip: when you start throwing insults instead of intelligence, you've lost the debate. You reply to me that I said I'm discouraging white people from moving to Howard Beach. Find the text where I said that.

I'm not here to say anything shocking. I gave my opinion about a neighborhood that I'm very familiar with. You're the one taking it personal with your, "Thank God you moved to Texas". :-). This is how irrational you are - So it's okay for you to opine about neighborhoods you DON'T live in at the moment, but I can't do the same because I don't live in the same city or state? Wow! Bottom line is that neither of us live or work in HB so we can ONLY draw from our experience or what we read. Take a deep breath and re-read what I just wrote, son!

Then you end your ridiculous rant with, "neighborhoods are diversifying, but that isn't just restricted to white areas." - Hilarious! Didn't I just give you two examples in my prior post of this phenomenon - Harlem and Chinatown?

Please stop with the replies now! You're embarrassing yourself and New York.
You don't know where I live since I never specified, so speak for yourself. Nothing personal, just a reality check that you don't live here and haven't now for at least three years son. Then you respond with this nonsense about how you never said such and such. Give me a break. You sure as hell implied it when you talked about how Howard Beach is oh so changing, as if minorities just suddenly showed up. They've been moving down there for years now, just not in high numbers, hence why I said that HB is still a white neighborhood and will be for some time (there is no need for whites to flee from HB, regardless of how much of a minority whites are in NYC overall), so again, I know what I'm talking about. Someone living in Texas is the one that needs to get a clue, not me. If those people were going to leave they would've done so years ago.
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Old 05-19-2017, 04:38 PM
 
Location: ATX
227 posts, read 79,441 times
Reputation: 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by pierrepont7731 View Post
You don't know where I live since I never specified, so speak for yourself. Nothing personal, just a reality check that you don't live here and haven't now for at least three years son. Then you respond with this nonsense about how you never said such and such. Give me a break. You sure as hell implied it when you talked about how Howard Beach is oh so changing, as if minorities just suddenly showed up. They've been moving down there for years now, just not in high numbers, hence why I said that HB is still a white neighborhood and will be for some time (there is no need for whites to flee from HB, regardless of how much of a minority whites are in NYC overall), so again, I know what I'm talking about. Someone living in Texas is the one that needs to get a clue, not me. If those people were going to leave they would've done so years ago.
so emotional!
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