The Official NYC Crime Thread (New York, Westbury: section 8, apartments, how much)

[DesiArnez6]

Originally Posted by KRS88

Ok guys lets talk more....Over the last year do you feel the city or your borough has gotten safer or worse?

Just the last year? Well, maybe a tiny bit better again. Not much different. Noticeably worse than 10 years ago. Noticeably better than 18 years ago.

Borough: Bronx

[NooYowkur81]

Fordham is much safer than it was in the 90's. There is just much more of a police presence there. There are always cops around. Not saying its peachy, obviously the cops are there because a lot of stuff still goes down but personally I feel safe.

[SobroGuy]

I would say that Mott Haven, Woodstock, Melrose, and Concourse are all HUGELY improved from 10 years ago, and are MUCH safer than 20 years ago, 10 years ago, 5 years ago, and safer than last year as well. The city continues to pour multibillions into the Southern Bronx in housing, infrastructure, transportation, etc, with no end in sight. And with a heavy police presence and changing demographics, the crime rate continues to go down, even below the record levels of the past 5 years.

[KRS88]

Originally Posted by SobroGuy

We have put forth the assertion that the crime stats are not IMMEDIATELY reflective of the murders that are occuring, as they are typically confirmed after an investigation (usually quite brief). For example, why immediately classify something as a murder when it could have also been a suicide? Accident? What is the only way to find out? INVESTIGATE..and that's their job to do it. So stats are changed as information comes in....they are an evolving number...we know this. So please don't expect any "murders" (we don't know if they were despite the flashy headlines from the papers) to be immediately tallied on the stats...when it is confirmed as a murder, it WILL BE ADDED. It is not a same day event!

There is no investigation to be put forth they were homicides read the articles. Look at all the people going to jail for Corruption, look at all the big political figures involved in illegal activity, Look at all the people unemployed, look at all the young latino and black men the nypd has killed and im supposed to belive they are doing the right thing when it comes to reporting a crime, and finally most importantly look at the residents of the low income communities 90% of the people I talk to say the crime is as bad as the mid 90s so dont come to my old neighborhood with the "crime is down for the 18th straight year" BS because they know what goes on in their neighborhood more than any dumb stat could say.

[SobroGuy]

I understand that you have a personal bias against many things, one of which is the crime stats. However, I am a resident of one of the LOWEST income communities, and 99% of the people I talk to are in agreement that crime is MUCH lower than at any other time that they can remember, they FEEL much safer, and the acknowledge the major investments ARE making a difference in their quality of life and how they perceive their community. I know what is going down in my neighborhood as much as the next person, as do my neighbors, and they all agree it is phenomenally safer...which jives with the crime stats. In fact over the last 3 years in my community, residents have been changing their solid steel doors to decorative glass and wood entry doors. This entry door change is not just a physical change, but a mental akcnowledgement of how the community has vastly improved, and how it continues to improve. 10 years ago NOBODY would have EVER thought to have a glass entry door, and now many do, and they are growing. We all know the stats are not bible...we don't expect them to be. But they are a good gauge as to what is happening, and the decrease in crime as reported in the stats jives with the monumental decreasing crime that is occuring in the South Bronx.

[DesiArnez6]

Originally Posted by SobroGuy

I understand that you have a personal bias against many things, one of which is the crime stats. However, I am a resident of one of the LOWEST income communities, and 99% of the people I talk to are in agreement that crime is MUCH lower than at any other time that they can remember, they FEEL much safer, and the acknowledge the major investments ARE making a difference in their quality of life and how they perceive their community. I know what is going down in my neighborhood as much as the next person, as do my neighbors, and they all agree it is phenomenally safer...which jives with the crime stats. In fact over the last 3 years in my community, residents have been changing their solid steel doors to decorative glass and wood entry doors. This entry door change is not just a physical change, but a mental akcnowledgement of how the community has vastly improved, and how it continues to improve. 10 years ago NOBODY would have EVER thought to have a glass entry door, and now many do, and they are growing. We all know the stats are not bible...we don't expect them to be. But they are a good gauge as to what is happening, and the decrease in crime as reported in the stats jives with the monumental decreasing crime that is occuring in the South Bronx.

Which just goes to show, how different perception can be by different neighborhoods. 99% of the people I talk to here in Morrissania (which is THE lowest average income of all New York City Zip Codes last time I checked) No one seems safer, no one believes the crime stats. My crime stat chart = the amount of times I duck down from gun shots out the window, and that has invariably increased.

I will say though, something many of our neighbors have also seen on the increase, especially those with vehicles, and property damage, and theft victims, a drastic decrease in POLICE REPORTING. While watching a group of kids smashing car vehicles and stealing, about 4, 911 calls and an hours wait, the cops never showed up. Down the street another incident neighbors complaining because cop refused to write up a report because "that would make MY insurance rates go up".

Family member witnessed bloody beating and robbery, no report taken, another family witnessed a subway beting some thug kids against n elderly, cop wouldnt write report, infact threatened to "leave now" or there would be problems" You can describe someones clothes from head to toe, and it doesnt matter anymore.

A local hardware store this Exactly 2 BLOCKS (short blocks) from the Precint couldnt get a report even when he had full description of the robbers that grabbed huge amount of dstuff and ran.

I have yet to meet one person appreciative of the local police force here, and we all talk, young and old. In fact the senior citizens are the most concerned. Another man In my building said he finally complained to the Community Board saying make them accountable, and criticized them from using NYCHA money, at which a cop happened to be present and basically threatened him to "be careful" as he was going "too far" with his suggestions.


When the gunshot levels begin to coincide with NYPD stats, MAYBE I'll believe them. Atleast in my neighborhood , no one else believes them. All week we got "charities" asking for "donations" on peoples doors at 10pm?!?!? and people knocking on every door on the floor asking for <Insert random different name at each door>.

All we see here are "roundups" where every young male walking down the street gets frisked and searched randomly, and often just arrested in mass amounts. Heck Ive been frisked and searched on the way to the supermarket, about three times in my building, on the way to do laundry, while checking my mail, and at my own doorstep with the key IN MY DOOR unlocking my apartment. And several times on the way to school, and University! All of these Illegal searches under law, but who cares, right?) (And I usually dress in khakis and a button down shirt)

*I am not fine with these circumstances. I don't think many are. The only good thing is it probably allows alot of people to sue themselves out of poverty (And those lawsuit statistics are drastically on the rise,someone PLease post if you have a current link)

[SobroGuy]

Desi it is all about perception. If you were to hang out in the projects, and surround yourself with drug dealers, your perception will likely be that crime is worse than it has ever been, our society is plummeting downward into a hell hole, and there is no future. Is that an accurate representation of NYC? Nope, and neither is the perception by the elite who live in $30 million dollar mansions on the upper east side, who spend their days wining and dining in NYC with the other ultra wealthy individuals...they will probably perceive NYC as a fabulous, safe, trendy, elite city with no real problems to speak of. My Point? I don't doubt that it SEEMS that crime is unchanged to the people you speak to, but your examples are nothing more than anecdotal evidence on the few people you speak to and your specific experiences, and are essentially no more valid than my same anecdotal evidence. So where does this leave us? Do I believe the crime stats are 100% accurate? NO..we don't expect them to be. Do I believe the long term trends are reflective of what is happening in NYC, and particular neighborhoods? YES. Why do I believe that? Because as a reasonable person, who is not part of the extremely miniscule minority of people who are part of the drug trade or involved in the criminal element, I can see and acknowledge the positive changes that are happening even in my community which is one of the poorest in the city. I do not hang out in the local bodega with the homies at 3am, the projects with my "crew", or go talk to Pablo "the fist" Gonzalez who just got out of prison, even though he and his family have been in the community for 40+ years. For those people, life will always be the same and crime will always be perceived as "out of control" and "growing" no matter what happens in their neighborhood. For the other 99.9% of the good people in the community, the increased safety, cleaner streets, new trees, park for the kids, new housing, shopping and dining options, all are coming together to improve the community and make it a better place for everyone. Is it perfect? NO..is it improving... YES!

[DesiArnez6]

Originally Posted by SobroGuy

Desi it is all about perception. If you were to hang out in the projects, and surround yourself with drug dealers, your perception will likely be that crime is worse than it has ever been, our society is plummeting downward into a hell hole, and there is no future. Is that an accurate representation of NYC? Nope, and neither is the perception by the elite who live in $30 million dollar mansions on the upper east side, who spend their days wining and dining in NYC with the other ultra wealthy individuals...they will probably perceive NYC as a fabulous, safe, trendy, elite city with no real problems to speak of. My Point? I don't doubt that it SEEMS that crime is unchanged to the people you speak to, but your examples are nothing more than anecdotal evidence on the few people you speak to and your specific experiences, and are essentially no more valid than my same anecdotal evidence. So where does this leave us? Do I believe the crime stats are 100% accurate? NO..we don't expect them to be. Do I believe the long term trends are reflective of what is happening in NYC, and particular neighborhoods? YES. Why do I believe that? Because as a reasonable person, who is not part of the extremely miniscule minority of people who are part of the drug trade or involved in the criminal element, I can see and acknowledge the positive changes that are happening even in my community which is one of the poorest in the city. I do not hang out in the local bodega with the homies at 3am, the projects with my "crew", or go talk to Pablo "the fist" Gonzalez who just got out of prison, even though he and his family have been in the community for 40+ years. For those people, life will always be the same and crime will always be perceived as "out of control" and "growing" no matter what happens in their neighborhood. For the other 99.9% of the good people in the community, the increased safety, cleaner streets, new trees, park for the kids, new housing, shopping and dining options, all are coming together to improve the community and make it a better place for everyone. Is it perfect? NO..is it improving... YES!

True, but then again I can see the "homies" from the window since Whit Castle decided "It is now too dangerous to do business 24 hours" according to the manager. My anecdotes come from alot of people. I also dont remember having these "homies" loitering in front of our buildings, blocking the door as much.

But that is the problem, it used to be that you could avoid trouble here if you you were a good person, thugs were only bithering thugs, now we have "cell phone" robbery packs stking out the entire neighborhood, with their obvious signals, sounds. You cant even do check cashing anymore, just stand outside of one for a good half hour, and youll see half of their workings right there. I never saw this before.

But its not just project dwellers, these are business owners I hear from as well.

You are right though, my time is primarily spent in this neighborhood, so It certainly is biased in that sense , and it wouldnt be fair to apply it to the city as a whole, likewise the Upper East siders.

Maybe Ill just get myself a gunshot notebook so I can just chart the shots over the next 5 years, and then 2014 I'll do an update post

Maybe it is just this area then, since I dont use metrocards for now anyways. For some reason the increase just seems disproporationte in this area, that weve even considered moving, and that says alot.

[KRS88]

Originally Posted by SobroGuy

Desi it is all about perception. If you were to hang out in the projects, and surround yourself with drug dealers, your perception will likely be that crime is worse than it has ever been, our society is plummeting downward into a hell hole, and there is no future. Is that an accurate representation of NYC? Nope, and neither is the perception by the elite who live in $30 million dollar mansions on the upper east side, who spend their days wining and dining in NYC with the other ultra wealthy individuals...they will probably perceive NYC as a fabulous, safe, trendy, elite city with no real problems to speak of. My Point? I don't doubt that it SEEMS that crime is unchanged to the people you speak to, but your examples are nothing more than anecdotal evidence on the few people you speak to and your specific experiences, and are essentially no more valid than my same anecdotal evidence. So where does this leave us? Do I believe the crime stats are 100% accurate? NO..we don't expect them to be. Do I believe the long term trends are reflective of what is happening in NYC, and particular neighborhoods? YES. Why do I believe that? Because as a reasonable person, who is not part of the extremely miniscule minority of people who are part of the drug trade or involved in the criminal element, I can see and acknowledge the positive changes that are happening even in my community which is one of the poorest in the city. I do not hang out in the local bodega with the homies at 3am, the projects with my "crew", or go talk to Pablo "the fist" Gonzalez who just got out of prison, even though he and his family have been in the community for 40+ years. For those people, life will always be the same and crime will always be perceived as "out of control" and "growing" no matter what happens in their neighborhood. For the other 99.9% of the good people in the community, the increased safety, cleaner streets, new trees, park for the kids, new housing, shopping and dining options, all are coming together to improve the community and make it a better place for everyone. Is it perfect? NO..is it improving... YES!

I know people who are good active members of their community who belive that crime is way up from 5 years ago and its a majority.

I agree with you on the fact the south bronx is getting better but thats the only place in the city were a type of revitilization like that is happening.

Pablo "the fist" Gonzalez??? lol very stereotypical name but funny.

Ever been to South Central La I have there and the streeets look clean they look like a good ol american suburb but thats till 9:00pm when the gangs come out. Ever been to a 3rd world slum I have and ive talked to residents and they say there is NO CRIME yet the slum looks DREADFUL this proves looks dont speak on a neighborhoods crime.

[WestburynLI to BronxnNYC]

I dunno about how crime has changed, but here in bronx river/soundview, it seems alot safer then it should be. I mean this is coming from someone from long island.