American City most similar to NYC (New York, Union: university, live, vs.)

[Jackson Pollock]

Originally Posted by edsg25

I'll run the risk of repeating myself again (I am.)

And of either being ignored (I will be.)

Or admonished for my suggestions here (I will be.)

But I have to completely disagree with you about New York because what you (and others) suggest doesn't ring true about any city in the world.

It is isn't about New York which, even in my opinion, remains America's greatest city. And even more importantly than greatest, New York remains a great city. By any measure.

What I find insane is how much of Wall Street's totally failed Masters-of-the-Universe still finds its counterpart on how people like you see New York. Yes, New York has more than any other city in the nation. But the age of its real dominance as being poles apart from other major US cities ended sometime after WWII. And the economic activities, the culture, the diversity, the vibrant city scape, the desire to live in the heart of town, the soaring skylines, the great restaurants, etc., have transformed other US cities.

Your notion that New York's skyline is 10x greater than the skyline of my city, Chicago, is about as absurd as if I were to suggest that Chicago's skyline is 10x greater than Houston's, San Francisco's, or Philadelphia's.

I pulled the 10 figure randomly. The actual figure is about half that:

Construction Comparison of the World's Most Booming Cities | Emporis.com

New York's skyline only equals 5 Chicagos.

And the notion that the greatest intellectual complex in America, the ultimate collegiate world that is Boston is 1/10 of NYC's cultural importance is an example of hubris-on-steroids that has become emblematic of the United States in the last 30 years. We are filled with ourselves. Seeing Boston in that light shows how provencial you are about places across the Hudson, Hudson, or Harlem rivers

I said culture, not "intellectual complex." Boston has New York beat in terms of universities, but it's nowhere close in terms of culture--high or low. New York is a world capital of culture. Only London can touch it. But we have London beat in terms of pop/low culture.

Again, Jackson, I'm not sure what planet you are living on. I do know that we here in Planet Chicago are putting together an Olympic bid going up against such global cities as Tokyo and the pieces aren't falling in place for us (they are, BTW) because we see our skyline or anything else about ourselves as being 1/10 of what NYC offers. We don't. And if we did, that very attitude would kill us.

I have no idea what you're going on about. I love Chicago. On election night, trust me, millions of New Yorkers were stunned and jealous your city's beauty.

You guys shouldn't be so self-hating! We're supposed to be the neurotic ones.

The beauty of a city like Chicago is that we no more think of ourselves as 1/10 of New York than we do that we are 10 times greater than other great cities. And the ranking is of no interest to us. Chicago is a great city by any measure and we don't need any comparisons or approval from outsiders to let us know that is true. We're really more about being ourselves, the best Chicago we can be. We have no more desire to be the great city of New York (it is) than we do of being the great city of Los Angeles (it is).

And, as noted before, that very Los Angeles looms big and strong on the West Coast and very much sees itself in its own terms, not New York's, with a different sphere of influence towards the Pacific and Middle America that is removed from New York's Atlantic orientation.

And as LA moves towards NYC size and power in the US that used to be located mainly in New York is now found in abundance in Washington, and as Chicago competes as the global city it is in its Olympic bid, nobody sees themselves in your city's shadow. And none of us wish for other cities to themselves in ours. That's the beauty of "great" that you miss, Jackson. "Great" doesn't need the comparitive of "greater" or superlative of "greatest" to have impact. "Great" stands on its own. And you so miss the point that it is the "great"....and not the "greater" or "greatest"....that so makes New York such a wonderful city. And that great would remain even if Vegas had 10x the number of hotel rooms than NY, Hong Kong a skyline 10x larger, and Orlando 10x the number of families wishing to visit it.

This isn't the mid-20th century. The US does not sit atop the world any more, our influence and sense of entitlement is ending with a real dose of reality. And New York, like every city in the world, is destined to struggle and to be less hierachial and more like the other players.

I happen to agree about the mid-century thing. Definitely the height of New York's power was 1945-50. We're in the long, slow decadent phase.

But I don't know what you mean about "less hierarchal." The US will be the global hegemon for a few years more.

New York's greatness is not in question. Even much of its relative greatness is not either. But the notion that New York is light years removed from other US cities or that it is, by decree, the utlimate or World's Greatest City is pure narrow provencial thought. And insane.

Yeah, ain't it great? :P

And I hope that thought stops. Because it does not hurt the other cities in question here who are going about their lives without any sense that they need to use a New York yardstick to measure themselves. And who are competing and striving with all their efforts because they have no desire to rest on their laurels in a very competitve and changing world.

No, the hurt is mainly for New York when it takes a self-agrandizing attitude that can be fatal to the notion that all cities, like all people, can't take anything for granted and need to work to kee up their positions in face of massive competition.

No, New York is fine. Again, by any measure. But the New York attitude exhibited by some here is anything but fine. And stinks.

Get a sense of humor, please. I haven't even been more than a week and you're jumping down my throat! gah.

[edsg25]

Originally Posted by Jackson Pollock

Get a sense of humor, please. I haven't even been more than a week and you're jumping down my throat! gah.

you did answer my issues so well and, yes, I shouldn't be jumping down your throat. don't know about sense of humor...that is actually something at times I have to much of.

again, Jack, it isn't about the quality of New York. It is about a type of hubris we see too much of (and, no, I'm not singling you out).

Keep in mind that nothing i wrote here would suggest that Chicago is the "greatest city in the nation", nor was I trying to elevate it in any way. You know, I'm not a New Yorker, but I am an American. And, as an American, I cringe at the whole "greatest nation in the world" line and feel that the thinking behind it has been extremely debilitating to the US and, yes, I believe you can see elements of our current problems...the excesses of the financial institutions and the endless and expensive push for empire related to that whole "greatest" thing. And that "greatest" is a part of New York's persona like it is for the US.

It seems to me both nation and city need to realize that these are different times and realize that the whole "top of the world" paradigm steered us the wrong way. There is an irony, I think although you very well may not agree with me, that the greatest monuments to the decline of New York City, the United States, and all the other cities within this country which worship at the same alter of greed and over-the-top capitalism would be Yankee Stadium and Citi Field. The two ultimate ballparks of this 20 year ballpark building blitz, these two have more bells and whistles and cost more than any previously built. And, of the two, Yankee Stadium by far. Yet only weeks into the new baseball season, seats remain empty in a way we haven't seen in any new ballpark because, for all the expense of it all, sadly for New York it's timing was the worst: no other teams had to struggle with the type of economy we now see and won't be going back to the "good old days", less than a year gone. We're not going to be living in a world where people, even the wealthiest, will be able to afford sitting behind home plate in the Bronx for $2000 a pop for one game.

That might seem off topic, but it is a sign of how much both New York and the US in general have elevated themselves. And greatness, for all of us, can have a shorter shelf life thatn we'd like to believe.

[Jackson Pollock]

Funny you should mention it, I was actually at the Mets game last night. (Though I'm a Yankees fan.) I hate how they got public money, but that's for another thread...

And I hear what you're saying, but our greatness is just a fact, like with Paris or Rome. Whether we slowly decline or toddle along or explode in a puff of smoke is mostly irrelevant. We've lodged ourselves into the world's imagination, for good and for ill.

[7 Wishes]

While I plan to see each stadium once this year just to see them, I think of them as the biggest reminders of why we're in the economic shape we're in now. I honestly think there was nothing wrong with "old, renovated" Yankee or Shea Stadium (or at least nothing that some minor renovations could've come up with) and think of how much of that money could've gone to education, to helping the downtrodden, etc.

I realize they started constructing it before the economy really cratered, but still.....

[edsg25]

Originally Posted by 7 Wishes

While I plan to see each stadium once this year just to see them, I think of them as the biggest reminders of why we're in the economic shape we're in now. I honestly think there was nothing wrong with "old, renovated" Yankee or Shea Stadium (or at least nothing that some minor renovations could've come up with) and think of how much of that money could've gone to education, to helping the downtrodden, etc.

I realize they started constructing it before the economy really cratered, but still.....

Wouldn't it be great if we could all have hindsight? Still you have to wonder: even when planning and construction were taking place for both ballparks, there were plenty of signs on the wall that wealth of a bubbled economy was not endless and a reckoning day was due. At the very least, the Yankees should have realized that those $2000 per game seats behind home plate was not a commodity that had a long shelf life.

Have to agree with you about the old YS: even after the 1970s renovation, it still had character and tradition. So while there is no downside, stadium wise, for the Shea to Citi move, one can't say the same thing for YS-I to YS-II.

[chitown2pa]

Originally Posted by erin3465

People always said it was Chicago, but when I finally got to Chicago, it felt nothing like NYC to me (besides the amount of skyscrapers).

For one, Chicago is really not that walkable on the whole, and there are parts where it almost feels like an NYC inner-ring suburb. Also, there arent that many areas that have that much foot traffic, it just doesnt feel that vibrant. And the people arent nearly as diverse or interesting.

If anything, despite endless differences I'd have to say (parts of) San Francisco are as close to the NYC "feel" as Ive seen in this country. The Market Street/Powell Street BART station area is very dense and bustling and somehow reminded me of parts of Manhattan. Also, despite the hills, it felt very dense and walkable, with lots of distinct neighborhoods in the same way that NYC has. The part of town with the Mission/Haight/Church Street/Marina/Fillmore neighborhoods all connected is the only part of a US city that has that conitguous walking neighborhood after walking neighborhood feel like NYC does (I guess downtown SF has several neighborhoods like that too, but the hills there make it more of a workout!). Also, lots of interesting people in SF, very diverse, etc...

Of course, overall NYC just dominates every other city in the country in terms of urban vibrancy, etc...IMO, parts of SF are as close as you can get, but still not really close at all.

Anyways, I live in Denver (for now) so I enjoy talking about cities that are actually urban...

Great post. Actually, though, when I first went to NYC, I was struck by how similar to Chicago it felt. I describe it as Chicago that just doesn't end. Out here, you can get out of downtown in 30 minutes. I don't know if you could do that in New York or not, but it didn't feel that way.

[Quendiva26]

This is a great thread because I've always wondered the answer to this question.

BTW - for the poster who compared a city to a mother's womb - and what if someone is adopted? Somehow their real mother (the one who raised them) will never measure up to the surrogate who carried them? Please.

And actually, I was born in Chicago. But I couldn't tell you a darned thing about it because we moved when I was a year old and I've never had the priviledge or opportunity to go back. But it is not the womb I long for. I long to live in NYC. I've wanted that for many, many years. But the reason this question/thread appeals to be so much is because New York, being the greatest city in the US to live in, is also the most expensive. And I've, fortunately or unfortunately, chosen a career that does not pay very well. So I look for an alternative. And thus find this thread quite interesting. But not that helpful...

I realize that everyone is going to have different opinions but somehow I feel more confused than ever! lol Wouldn't it have been great if everyone just said "Chicago!" or "Philly!" and then my questions answered? A poll would have been nice too. So I guess now the thing to do is to figure out which aspects of NYC are most appealing to me and then decide which city is most like those aspects. Or bite the bullet and just move to New York after all.

[crider]

San Francisco is the only city that approaches the feel of some parts of NYC in my opinion. But SF has a wonderful feel that is all its own that cannot be duplicated anywhere else in the country. These are my favorite cities in the country but I am too poor to live in either one.

[SilkCity0416]

Bravo, Edsg25; you seem to be the only voice of reason on this thread. The fact of the matter is: There is no city in America that is NYC. That doesn't mean they're arent as good as NYC, they just have their own feel and vibe. NYC is still the dominate city in America and the World. However, her power is starting the fade. Will the economy in trouble, ( Wall St. ) and global crisis such as war, poverty, famine, and genocide ( the UN ), we see some of NYC main powerbase is slipping.

I don't think NYC will dominate the 21st Century as it did the 20th. That title may go to London, or possibly some Far East city like Hong Kong, or Beijing. Though, that doesn't mean NYC wouldn't still be a great city.

[chitown2pa]

Originally Posted by Quendiva26

This is a great thread because I've always wondered the answer to this question.

BTW - for the poster who compared a city to a mother's womb - and what if someone is adopted? Somehow their real mother (the one who raised them) will never measure up to the surrogate who carried them? Please.

And actually, I was born in Chicago. But I couldn't tell you a darned thing about it because we moved when I was a year old and I've never had the priviledge or opportunity to go back. But it is not the womb I long for. I long to live in NYC. I've wanted that for many, many years. But the reason this question/thread appeals to be so much is because New York, being the greatest city in the US to live in, is also the most expensive. And I've, fortunately or unfortunately, chosen a career that does not pay very well. So I look for an alternative. And thus find this thread quite interesting. But not that helpful...

I realize that everyone is going to have different opinions but somehow I feel more confused than ever! lol Wouldn't it have been great if everyone just said "Chicago!" or "Philly!" and then my questions answered? A poll would have been nice too. So I guess now the thing to do is to figure out which aspects of NYC are most appealing to me and then decide which city is most like those aspects. Or bite the bullet and just move to New York after all.

Here's your answer: Chicago has an equivalent for everything NYC has. Ask me anything in New York, and I will tell you the Chicago equivalent.

At least, I think I can do this. Try me; it could be fun.