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^We not discussing cutting the paychecks of the people working in the positions that you have posted. I have clients that are nannies, and housekeepers and they are paid well for their services. Sometimes a lot more than transit workers. I hardly feel sorry for them.
I don't feel sorry for transit workers either. BTW I'm hardly a marxist. I am however aware of the contributions already taking out a huge chunk of the "huge" salaries that the MTA worker make. You seem oblivious to this.
No they're not. FDNY firefighters are very well compensated(get around $85k w/ fringe) and NYPD Police Officers, w/ their new contract, will make around $90k. Expect more for Sergeants and Detectives. The MTA employees that most here come into contact w/ make nowhere near those ranges.
FDNY and NYPD are paid less for crying out loud! I have suggested giving city workers section 8 vouchers, which would put a dent into the cost of living issue. Asking more contributions towards the pension and health plans isn't facism. Put down the Marx literature and get real.
Fred 314X, your transit job isn't going to get better when the system once again becomes a haven for thug life and general social filth, which is what will happen if the situation is allowed to spiral out of control. For a period in the late 70s, TA workers were actually losing their lives to street crime.
FDNY and NYPD paid less than transit workers? You're facing 180 degrees in the wrong direction.
And as far as your commentary about what the system will become...speculation on your part and nothing more. The reason for the condition of things in the 70s had very little to do with thugs or filth. It had a lot more to do with maintenance work that was allowed to lapse for years on end.
I'm afraid your comments are very, very typical of people standing on the outside looking in. And so once again, I invite you to scan the Chief, take some exams, and get better informed. (But don't be too disappointed when you find out that we make less than the police and firefighters! Nor do we have anything like a 20-year-and-out retirement policy. In case you felt like you had to bring that up, as well).
I understand what you are stating. However understand what I am stating, consultants are paid to determine how to improve things overall. They are usually non unionized outsiders, that are paid a lot of money. Most times they come up with ideas that have been tried before, and proven not to work. Ideas that were tried before with a previous administration, that also paid a lot of money to the consultants of that time.
Alot of the times the actual workers, and supervisors with many years of experience, are never a part of the improvement process. If they were they could let the powers that be know that certain things don't work, and refer back to when it was tried before. There must be documentation that it was tried, and that it failed. The new consultants have no idea a lot of the time, because they never see the documentation, and they have never done the actual work. Some things appear on paper like they will work, but when actually physically executed can't work.
This is what the public doesn't know and the public is not aware of. They would be outraged if they knew what these consultants were getting paid. The union speaks out against it but it this argument between union and management never appears in the media, and the polititians never say anything about this aspect of things.
Ok, that well may be, but I said apples to apples. If there are unionized consultants, they make more than non-unionized consultants. Your original post read as if the MTA hired people who do the same job as unionized workers and paid them more.
Ok, that well may be, but I said apples to apples. If there are unionized consultants, they make more than non-unionized consultants. Your original post read as if the MTA hired people who do the same job as unionized workers and paid them more.
Unionized consultants would NOT make more than non-unionized consultants. I know for a fact that all city and state agencies use outside consultants and pay them hundreds of thousands of dollars each. No unionized worker is ever paid as much as a consultant. All unions are asking that the city and state examine and end this practice first, before demanding pay cuts, and benefit cuts to unionized workers.
The media does not say anything about this practice, at all. It has been stated many times, and left out of every interview. The public is unaware.
If they would take a team of MTA workers already employed with MTA, consisting of supervisors at every level, in every position, that worked their way up to the various positions, not taking them out of their positions but meeting with them, and asking them, exactly what is going on? what should be done? what is the best way to fix problem xyz? Not taking them out of their positions, but using their knowledge, they know the system. They don't need to hire people to study the system, then advise, when there are people that know the system already, and don't need to study it.
The MTA has brilliant engineers from some of the best universities in the city, that are unionized workers. They have master plumbers, master electricians, technicians on every level. Some have received some the best training as military people. Why pay all of that money to people that know nothing about the system?
Unionized consultants would NOT make more than non-unionized consultants. I know for a fact that all city and state agencies use outside consultants and pay them hundreds of thousands of dollars each. No unionized worker is ever paid as much as a consultant. All unions are asking that the city and state examine and end this practice first, before demanding pay cuts, and benefit cuts to unionized workers.
Read the bold part. Remember the whole "apples to apples" thing.
Of course, consultants make more than the unionized workers. But that is not an apples to apples comparison. The post that started this whole thing read as if you were saying "the mta pays non-unionized janitors more than unionized janitors" or something crazy like that.
The city population is decreasing and the people who responded to the NYT, the majority of them, had already left. And while there has been a consistent inflow of people to replace the people who leave in the past, with these economic times, those new transplants will decrease in number. And then what is going to happen?
The increase in taxes, the increase MTA fares and the high cost of food and real estate (including rentals) does not make this city affordable even for MTA workers.
It's really annoying to read someone living in another area of the country or state who compares their transportation costs to our costs and says that we get a better deal. How so? Transportation is only one subset of the cost of living here. Rent and real estate is most expensive here than in most other places. So while your transportation costs are higher, your cost of living is lower mostly due to lower cost of housing, food etc. So it's really unfair to compare apples to oranges.
And this is why people are moving from our fair city. Why is that so hard to believe?
Read the bold part. Remember the whole "apples to apples" thing.
Of course, consultants make more than the unionized workers. But that is not an apples to apples comparison. The post that started this whole thing read as if you were saying "the mta pays non-unionized janitors more than unionized janitors" or something crazy like that.
I honestly don't understand what you are stating now. I understand that people don't want the consultant part of the equation known. That is good. You are not able to confuse the issue, because I'm very clear.
They are not paying non-unionized workers to do unionized workers jobs. They are creating unnecessary consultant positions for relatives, friends, and friends of friends. These consultants have no experience in the areas that their jobs were created for. They are paid hundreds of thousands of dollars for their created jobs. The created job is for them to study an area of the transit system that needs improvement, and to come up with ideas on how to improve it.
There are already experienced unionized men and women performing in the job areas, that the consultants, are paid to come up with ideas, to improve. The unionized workers are ordered to follow the ideas of these consultants, ideas that most of the time, the unionized workers know do not work.
You can continue to try to confuse this, but anyone, except a few people that have an agenda, to keep this practice going, understands exactly what I've posted.
The public is unaware of this, it is also unaware of the wasteful spending paid to consultants and outside non unionized workers, paid at a much higher rate than the unionized workers.
If you scroll back to page 3 you will find a post which states the above. Now, read the last sentence of the part I quoted. It reads as if you are saying that non-unionized workers are paid at a much higher rate than unionized workers.
I then said, "if you are talking apples to apples, that is simply impossible". What I was saying is that a union worker will always make more than a non-union worker if they have the same job. Do you still not understand?
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