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Old 05-23-2009, 01:41 AM
 
Location: Living on the Coast in Oxnard CA
10,541 posts, read 14,071,950 times
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Just wondering if Trump's places have grafiti on them?
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Old 05-23-2009, 11:12 AM
 
Location: Back home in Kaguawagpjpa.
1,992 posts, read 5,261,325 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by squeezeboxgal View Post
No -- it's unsightly and illegal.
Says who?
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Old 05-23-2009, 01:21 PM
 
Location: Brooklyn
40,059 posts, read 20,108,180 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilkCity0416 View Post
Says who?
Are you seriously asking whether graffiti on the trains is illegal? OK--since I happen to work for MTA, maybe I can help. It's illegal. Hope this settles the matter.
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Old 05-23-2009, 01:32 PM
 
6 posts, read 9,068 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred314X View Post
Are you seriously asking whether graffiti on the trains is illegal? OK--since I happen to work for MTA, maybe I can help. It's illegal. Hope this settles the matter.
Moderator cut: rude

He bolded "unsightly".

Last edited by Green Irish Eyes; 05-23-2009 at 02:06 PM.. Reason: Rude
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Old 05-23-2009, 02:30 PM
 
Location: NYC
304 posts, read 837,139 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GDK94 View Post
anders...what if graffiti artists asked permission (and achieved it) to write on trains? it wouldn't be vandalism and your tax dollars wouldn't be spent on removing it, since those seem to be your biggest complaints.
#1, What if the MTA, and NYCers in general (outside of graffiti-fan subset) regard graffiti as unnecessary, annoying, adolescent stuff?
Why can't a train just be _a train_?
There's no reason why everything in Creation has to be a decorated, rick-racked, Easter-egg-tinted vehicle for one person's ego-needs.
Trains and stations are intentionally bland, since they don't need more visual clutter. The "official" art that exists -- as in station mosaics et al -- is pretty neutral, so that it doesn't distract, and will withstand some test of time.
And a whole lot of people want to put graffiti behind them, or avoid it: It's gut-level synonymous with disempowerment, or with coverups as a sop (" hey, we don't have to improve anything - just let 'em paint a mural" -- as if intelligent adults were pre-K kids).

#2, The agreement would be pointless appeasement, since no-permit taggers would still tag any available space. They'd regard MTA-approved tagging as inauthentic and bogus, since
-- the MTA could give yea-nay approval to the stuff, just as it does to legit subway art; and
-- "challenge" is part of the (apparent) thrill of tagging.

#3, Why should graffiti be specially privileged, anyway?
-- If it's an expressiveness issue: A lot of people have expressive ideas. They might want to paper over any subway ads they hate, personally change the cars' and stations' color schemes, or decoupage huge blowups of Rembrandt portraits onto the cars. Should they get permits, too?
-- If the issue is esthetics: NYC is eyeball-deep in legit (and starving) artists who could make subway cars a Thing of Beauty. Why not give _them_ permission to do so?
If you exempt/"reward" only a group that would do it anyway, is least controllable, and isn't necessarily the best-skilled: You're just giving up and hoping that appeasement will decrease overall vandalism.

The most vexing issue isn't esthetics or crime, but the fact that this is an issue _at all_ -- a lifestyle, with guys spending an inordinate, obsessive amount of time and energy doing it, and buying or boosting truckloads' worth of paint ... just to mark territory.
In that sense, graffiti isn't/wasn't just a symptom of NYC's loss of control. It is/was a symptom of _individuals'_ hopelessness + undirectedness + alienation, and I don't see a lot of reason to celebrate that.
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Old 05-23-2009, 05:21 PM
 
Location: Brooklyn
40,059 posts, read 20,108,180 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anders View Post
The most vexing issue isn't esthetics or crime, but the fact that this is an issue _at all_ -- a lifestyle, with guys spending an inordinate, obsessive amount of time and energy doing it, and buying or boosting truckloads' worth of paint ... just to mark territory.
In that sense, graffiti isn't/wasn't just a symptom of NYC's loss of control. It is/was a symptom of _individuals'_ hopelessness + undirectedness + alienation, and I don't see a lot of reason to celebrate that.
Perfectly true! The only problem is that the graffitists themselves would deny every syllable of it.
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Old 05-23-2009, 05:55 PM
 
Location: northeast
567 posts, read 956,614 times
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anders...i'll admit, i didn't read your whole rant, but i read enough to see how much of a close-minded individual you are. so no matter the circumstances, graffiti is wrong, because you say so? even if its legal, it should be banned because it doesn't appeal to you? and what makes you so sure that most new yorkers share your opinions?
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Old 05-23-2009, 06:08 PM
 
11,151 posts, read 9,656,393 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GDK94 View Post
anders...i'll admit, i didn't read your whole rant, but i read enough to see how much of a close-minded individual you are. so no matter the circumstances, graffiti is wrong, because you say so? even if its legal, it should be banned because it doesn't appeal to you? and what makes you so sure that most new yorkers share your opinions?
And I'd like to know why you think most New Yorkers share YOUR opinion?

For now, of course, it's a moot point -- graffiti is (unless sanctioned by the owner of a specific property) illegal. If you believe it should be legalized, and believe that you have enough community support to get the laws changed, then I encourage you to do so.
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Old 05-23-2009, 06:20 PM
 
Location: northeast
567 posts, read 956,614 times
Reputation: 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by squeezeboxgal View Post
And I'd like to know why you think most New Yorkers share YOUR opinion?

For now, of course, it's a moot point -- graffiti is (unless sanctioned by the owner of a specific property) illegal. If you believe it should be legalized, and believe that you have enough community support to get the laws changed, then I encourage you to do so.
i never said i think most people agree with me. i made one post, that stated the comments on the videos anders posted.

as far as trying to legalize graffiti, its already legal (if you have permission).
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Old 05-24-2009, 08:51 AM
 
Location: NYC
304 posts, read 837,139 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GDK94 View Post
as far as trying to legalize graffiti, its already legal (if you have permission).
The whole _point_ of this thread was graffiti-bombing of trains. That's illegal -- since, to my knowledge, the MTA isn't distributing authorized-graffiti permits or contemplating Good Bombing Guidelines.

Regardless: Permission wouldn't be a free ride (no pun intended).
When a property owner gives permission, he-she also _controls_ what you do on or with that property.
If another party can control, or even reject, the whole thing, it's not even graffiti-as-we-know-it anymore, since "graffiti" normally refers to unauthorized/informal marking. "Legal" graffiti = a license or commission to do a graffiti-_style_ work.

So comparing legal/illegal graffiti is like comparing car theft to car-borrowing. The owner's OK makes it legal _and_ sets limits.
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