Are middle class residents being pushed out of NYC? (New York: apartment, condos)

[jigglypuff]

Originally Posted by SobroGuy

Umm..for the 7 years BEFORE you buy, you RENT like everyone else and save your money. Unless of course you expect to buy a home right out of college?

ok again all you are doing is showing how inaccessible housing is for the middle class in NYC.

in order to be a teacher you MUST have a MASTERS DEGREE. do you know what that is: AFTER you finish college you go to grad school. you work full time or part time and get a degree. about 9.4% of americans have a grad school degree or higher, so you are already at the top ten percent education wise not some kid fresh out of college.

when you start teaching with your masters that put you in the top 10% you are making ONLY $49,000. so your argument that teachers who are among an elite group, both for their education and for the service they provide and then as a make a full $4k, LESS than then the national average for those with a masters degree are acting like spoiled college kids is laughable on its face.

thats say its not, they have already rented for AT LEAST two years after college, so no, they are NOT "expecting to buy a home right out of college".

so you are saying that these elite group of highly educated persons who provide an invaluable service to the city should then turn around and rent in the crappiest parts for the city for an ADDITIONAL 8 years for a total of 10 (8 post grad + 2 during grad) is the definition of accessible to middle class? and thats if they want a 3 family home in the SOUTH BRONX? thats your definition of accessible? really? and then to have nerve to turn around and insult these extremely well educated, grossly underpaid people who provide this invaluable service to the city as "having irrational expectations".

are you kidding me? you must be.

[SobroGuy]

Okay so here we go again..I am one of those people with Masters Degrees, and I rented until I could afford to buy..and guess where I could afford to buy? South Bronx...sure I would like to live in Chelsea in a 3 bedroom with rooftop deck..but I could not afford it and I live where I can afford. Why do you feel you deserve something you cannot afford. If you cannot afford to buy what you want in NYC, or whatever you feel you deserve to have..why do you assert that it is a problem with NYC? It is in fact a problem with you and your expectations...buying is not a right..and neither is living in whatever neighborhood you feel you deserve. Your comments show who has the real problem here....you can only afford to live in the "crappiest neighborhoods" therefore you feel you deserve something better....the problem is not NYC..it is YOU. I always thought you live where you can afford...but I guess it is just easier to complain and blame others for one's problems.

[SobroGuy]

There are PLENTY of middle/working class housing in NYC...as Bloomberg has created the largest affordable housing initiative in NYC..but since they are not in the areas you feel are "good enough" for you..none of the middle class housing matters to you. And therein lies the problem..you want the Sex and the city lifestyle on a Good Times budget...turn off the tv and join us in the real world. You want middle class/affordable housing..it's NOT in the UES..it's NOT in the Village..it's is being created in areas that have the space for, and where it makes economic sense to build it. Now if you feel you are too good for it...that is your problem..not NYC's.

[jigglypuff]

personally, i am glad you said what you did, bookmark it and remember it when you see people talk about problems with in the educational system. teachers who are good at what they do AND want to live somewhere nice or at least better than the south bronx in a 3 family home no less: are in the "wrong city/have irrational expectations".

[SobroGuy]

I am a long time NYC resident, 3rd generation in fact...so I am keenly aware of what is happening in NYC and its problems. I understand what YOU WANT, I want alot of things...but REALITY kicks in and you have to choose what YOU WANT and what YOU CAN AFFORD...this is part of being a grown-up. But to show how the city is bending over backwards for the middle class...and teachers specifically, they are in fact building affordable housing specifically for teachers in Melrose (that dreaded South Bronx again!). TEACHER HOUSING ON TAP FOR BX. - New York Post But that doesn't matter to you either..you are too good for the area and thumb your nose at it...that'll show 'em!

[jigglypuff]

Originally Posted by SobroGuy

Okay so here we go again..I am one of those people with Masters Degrees, and I rented until I could afford to buy..and guess where I could afford to buy? South Bronx...sure I would like to live in Chelsea in a 3 bedroom with rooftop deck..but I could not afford it and I live where I can afford. Why do you feel you deserve something you cannot afford. If you cannot afford to buy what you want in NYC, or whatever you feel you deserve to have..why do you assert that it is a problem with NYC? It is in fact a problem with you and your expectations...buying is not a right..and neither is living in whatever neighborhood you feel you deserve. Your comments show who has the real problem here....you can only afford to live in the "crappiest neighborhoods" therefore you feel you deserve something better....the problem is not NYC..it is YOU. I always thought you live where you can afford...but I guess it is just easier to complain and blame others for one's problems.

you are the one going on about "entitlements" and what people "deserve" i never used either word. but like you said those teachers who are well educated and WANT a nice place to live are "in the wrong city" with "irrational expectations" i wont argue with that, it is your opinion and you are entitled to it (first time i actually used that word). if you think a masters degree and 8 years hard work in one for toughest school systems in the country to live in a three family in the south bronx is ACCESSIBLE, thats your right. nice touch saying that wanting to live somewhere nice (or at least not the crappiest parts of town) as such hard work "is blaming others for your problems".

just like its might right to say thats completely laughable, as far from "accessible" as one can get and utter nonsense. and only again shows just how INACCESSIBLE the city is to this "blaming others for your problems" middle class (live in the south bronx, which is, the south bronx, and not to mention what if you teach in brooklyn or staten island. i know that would be blaming others for your problems). and you were right about only one thing this is the "wrong city" for the hard working middle class.

which is exactly the reason why good teachers do the smart thing and leave the city... in DROVES.

[jigglypuff]

some fun facts about teachers leaving the city (which some people claim they act like spoiled college kids for wanting to buy a home after getting a masters and teaching for few years)

www.nyc.gov/html/records/pdf/govpub/1024teachersal.pdf

-70% of the most experienced NYC public school teachers are likely to retire within the
next two years
- 25% of mid-career teachers and nearly 30% of newer teachers say it is likely that they will leave the system within the next three years
-18% of teachers leaving in the first year
-the national rate is only 10%
-number one reason is expense of the city and low salary
-there are 80,000 teaching positions in the city and there will be some 30,000 vacancies in the coming years.
a 2004 survey of current teachers showed that
-over 29% of new teachers were unlikely to still be teaching in NYC in 3 years
-over 26% of mid career teachers are unlikely to be teaching in NYC in 3 years


also teaching in nearby areas pays more than $20k as much in some cases $50k more and than in the city, and property prices in most paces are on par or cheaper than the city proper.

so sobroguy is right these teachers are DEFINITELY in the wrong city. still some just want to be of service and live somewhere nice, which i guess being a spoiled college kid. plus many of the areas around the city that pay their teachers less will match the salary scale of teachers who taught in the city, and give help buying a nice single family home or condo. wrong city.

[Mr.Triny33]

Originally Posted by SobroGuy

There are PLENTY of middle/working class housing in NYC...as Bloomberg has created the largest affordable housing initiative in NYC..but since they are not in the areas you feel are "good enough" for you..none of the middle class housing matters to you. And therein lies the problem..you want the Sex and the city lifestyle on a Good Times budget...turn off the tv and join us in the real world. You want middle class/affordable housing..it's NOT in the UES..it's NOT in the Village..it's is being created in areas that have the space for, and where it makes economic sense to build it. Now if you feel you are too good for it...that is your problem..not NYC's.

ROFLMAO, Classic

[analyticalkeys]

Originally Posted by SobroGuy

There are PLENTY of middle/working class housing in NYC...as Bloomberg has created the largest affordable housing initiative in NYC..but since they are not in the areas you feel are "good enough" for you..none of the middle class housing matters to you. And therein lies the problem..you want the Sex and the city lifestyle on a Good Times budget...turn off the tv and join us in the real world. You want middle class/affordable housing..it's NOT in the UES..it's NOT in the Village..it's is being created in areas that have the space for, and where it makes economic sense to build it. Now if you feel you are too good for it...that is your problem..not NYC's.

This post is the truth... anything else is a lie.

[tpk-nyc]

The challenge with New York, from a demographic/economic perspective, is that it's much more like a European city (London or Paris) than an American one. This is very hard for Americans to understand/accept as it's such an anomaly. Boston and San Francisco (both surrounded by water) are the only other American cities that are vaguely similar.

How is it like Paris? It's because the rich live in the historic city center and the middle and working classes live on the periphery. New York is unusual because the "luxury" areas are so enormous (the whole of Manhattan south of 110th Street, but including some areas around Columbia and brownstones in Harlem, most of Brownstone Brooklyn plus Williamsburg, and recently parts of LIC).

Put another way, the affluent areas of New York are geographically larger than the entire city of Minneapolis. The middle class is effectively excluded from owning within the 30 square miles at the heart of the city.

I make no assertion as to whether or not certain people "deserve" to live within those 30 square miles. In the expectations game, most of us have typical, American expectations. The problem is that those expectations don't apply in NYC.