Are middle class residents being pushed out of NYC? (New York: middle-class, 2009)

[analyticalkeys]

Originally Posted by 7 Wishes

I saw the link, and $472,000 to purchase a home in the SOUTH BRONX? What do they do, completely fortress it off from the rest of the of neighborhood? I mean there are better places even in the tri-state area where houses cost this or just a little bit more.....and someone making $118K shouldn't need the Housing Dept. to get a home (but I am not saying that that salary makes you RICH here, far from it).

Almost sounds like they're trying to over-gentrify the neighborhood......

The Bronx isn't as bad as it was, and a lot of these houses are actually very nice.

[GDK94]

i already said this on another thread but just look around you. almost every nabe in every boro used to be filled with middle class people. in the 50's, NYC had almost 7 million middle class residents. now, its down to 2 or 3 million. nyc used to bring in middle class workers from all over the country and was the manufacturing capital of the nation. so, manufacturing quitting the city may have had an impact on the middle class then and that may very well be why so many of them left, but i'm sure the COL of today is a contributing factor in the loss of the current middle class residents too. this city has lost 4 or 5 million middle class in almost 6 decades.

[bluedog2]

The neighborhood where I live and the building I live in are both filled with middle class people right now.Huge swaths of Brooklyn,The Bronx,Queens and Staten Island are filled with middle class people right now.

[GDK94]

Originally Posted by bluedog2

The neighborhood where I live and the building I live in are both filled with middle class people right now.Huge swaths of Brooklyn,The Bronx,Queens and Staten Island are filled with middle class people right now.

maybe SI, but not the rest of the boros. i know i can count the middle class nabes (middle class, not the poor or overly rich ones) in brooklyn on my hands. manhattan used to have more middle class than the bronx, now it has none. i dont know about queens though as in all my life of living here, ive never been to all of it.

EDIT: so no ones confused, by middle class nabe, im talking majority mc (or more middle class than any other social class), not just a few blocks here and there or a few streets.

[analyticalkeys]

Originally Posted by GDK94

maybe SI, but not the rest of the boros. i know i can count the middle class nabes (middle class, not the poor or overly rich ones) in brooklyn on my hands. manhattan used to have more middle class than the bronx, now it has none. i dont know about queens though as in all my life of living here, ive never been to all of it.

EDIT: so no ones confused, by middle class nabe, im talking majority mc, not just a few blocks here and there or a few streets. no, 50% or higher middle class.

Queens is home to the middle class. There are some areas that have some lower class, and some upper class, but the majority of neighborhoods are middle class dominated.

[bluedog2]

Originally Posted by GDK94

maybe SI, but not the rest of the boros. i know i can count the middle class nabes (middle class, not the poor or overly rich ones) in brooklyn on my hands. manhattan used to have more middle class than the bronx, now it has none. i dont know about queens though as in all my life of living here, ive never been to all of it.

EDIT: so no ones confused, by middle class nabe, im talking majority mc (or more middle class than any other social class), not just a few blocks here and there or a few streets.

In The Bronx you have Riverdale,Woodlawn,Bedford Park,Norwood,Pelham Parkway,Morris Park,Bronxdale,Pelham Gardens,Throgs Neck,Pelham Bay,Country Club,Baychester and City Island.These neighborhoods are all overwhelmingly middle class.A large part of Wakefield and most of Allerton are also solid middle class. If you look at a map you will see that these neighborhoods actually are about 70% of the land mass of the borough.

In Brooklyn you have BayRidge,Bensonhurst, Fort Hamilton, SheepsheadBay, Kensington, Dyker Heights,Park Slope,Prospect Park, Mill Basin,Carrol Gardens and Greenpoint...I have probably missed more than a few.Again,a very large swath of the borough.
Queens ? Virtually the entire borough with a few exceptions.

[GDK94]

Originally Posted by bluedog2

If you look at a map you will see that these neighborhoods actually are about 70% of the land mass of the borough.

the land mass is irrelevant, the percentage of the population is more important. example: SI is bigger than manhattan, but which houses the most people?

In Brooklyn you have..... Greenpoint

greenpoint is a perfect example of how the city is losing its middle class. it used to be a place where the middle class and immigrants would go, but its proximity to manhattan has changed the prices of the neighborhood to reflect that of williamsburg, its population has been growing less and less each year and inevitably will start to experience negative growth or either it will be filled with upper middle class.

[GDK94]

but my point is, the city (and most likely the neighborhoods you all named) has become less middle class. like i said, it went from 7 million middle class in the 50's to just 3 million today. when you lose well over half of something, its unrealistic to think it still holds the same prevalence.

[bluedog2]

You said there were no middle class neighborhoods.I gave you examples.Does it really matter that the middle class population of The Bronx is only 50% while the land that they occupy is 70%? What is your point there?
Re Greenpoint and other "gentrifying neighborhoods " ... you are projecting about what you think will happen in the future, which could very well be wrong.Your projections have nothing to do with how many middle class neighborhoods there are in Brooklyn today.The average HOUSEHOLD income in Greenpoint is around $50,000. Williamsburg is more like 35,000.I didn't include Williamsburg in my list because I knew you would scoff but the reality is that it is barely middle class .Even Park Slope,which I am sure you think has been gentrified to death has a median HOUSEHOLD income of under 50,000. Even the average HOUSEHOLD income is around 65,000. Pretty middle class if you ask me.
The bottom line is that they are all middle class neighborhoods.

[GDK94]

Originally Posted by bluedog2

You said there were no middle class neighborhoods

when did i say that again?

Does it really matter that the middle class population of The Bronx is only 50% while the land that they occupy is 70%? What is your point there?

no, land area does not matter and i still don't see why you insist more middle class occupied land area= more middle class. if the area has a relatively low density it doesn't matter. but the fact that the bronx population is 50% mc matters.

Greenpoint and other "gentrifying neighborhoods " ... you are projecting about what you think will happen in the future, which could very well be wrong.

so what makes you think greenpoint is going to turn out different than any other gentrified neighborhood?

The average HOUSEHOLD income in Greenpoint is around $50,000. Williamsburg is more like 35,000.I

and? all of williamsburg isn't even gentrified yet. so a better comparison would be a manhattan nabe.