Will the subway ever be expanded? (and a depressing 1939 expansion map) (Utica: living in, bus)

[Jackson Pollock]

It's pretty sad how ancient cities like Athens, Rome, Paris, London have all added miles of new track in recent years, while NYC has pretty much given up.

I don't expect to ride the 2nd Avenue subway in my lifetime, never mind dare to imagine that new routes would be opened up in the outer boroughs and beyond to the suburbs.

Check out this map for a proposed system expansion from 1939:

File:1939 IND Second System.jpg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I think I'm going to weep.

[StrugglingMusician91]

By 2015 the second avenue route will be finished they say.

[hotnikks]

That map is awesome! Too bad that was 70 years ago and still hasn't happened. Travel would be so much easier from the outer bouroughs to manhattan.

[gradstudent77]

Its too late to build the subway that NYC deserved. Land was cheap, relatively speaking, in the 1930's and 1940's, before the outlying parts of the boroughs were built up. We missed the chance to have the subway connect the whole city. I especially like that little extension from BK to SI in that 1939 map.

[ddhboy]

I'm not to sure about some of the lines, since in reality many of them would be redundant. The Utica Avenue line would have to be built above ground, which would conflict and destroy Eastern Parkway, unless the city would have to bury the line deep underground in order to avoid the 4,3 and the A,C, not to mention that your talking about building on a pretty steep hill. When you go to Manhattan it gets worse since you have like 6, 7 lines that would merge on the 6th avenue line. Aside from which, Most of the routs missing here have been supplemented by bus routes and is now considered feeders into the regular system now.

You think that the Lex ave lines are bad now? If some of those lines were built it would be gridlock in the tunnels of Manhattan and spotty service in the outer boroughs.

[bluedog2]

What a great map ! Never knew that the original 2nd ave line plan went over to Throg's Neck in The Bronx .That is the only area of The Bronx that has absolutely no service today.The rest of the lines are fully functioning....except the 3rd ave el .
Anyone know where the 3rd ave el ran north of Fordham Road ? Did it run up Webster Ave or did it use the rail bed that metro north uses now ?

[UpstaterInBklyn]

The great public-works engineering achievements of the early 20th century such as the Panama Canal, Hoover Dam, and yes, the Subway, along with most of NY's most notable skyscrapers were built at a time when concerns for worker safety and the environment did not exist. Hundreds of men died building the subway and Hoover Dam. Thousands died building the Panama Canal. The workers also dealt with horrific working conditions and were often exploited immigrants.

One of the side effects of the comfort and safety of modern life is that huge projects like these have become way more expensive and time-consuming than they were in the past. (Example: Boston's Big Dig).

Other factors also create difficulties in getting projects done. Today's political process is more transparent and modern media communications inform more people about projects and their impact on individuals or communities, plus, there is the necessity of performing multiple environmental studies and reviews and allowing for public comment. For better or worse, this ultimately creates friction in the process as affected groups have their say and adds expense and delays to projects. In the past, a few men would get together in a room, smoke some cigars and make the decisions. Today's process is a lot less efficient.

[UpstaterInBklyn]

What's interesting about the map is that the Rockaway Line - today's A train, was completed at what must have been great expense, yet it serves a relatively small group of residents compared to many of the proposed extensions into other parts of Brooklyn and Queens with greater populations.

Hmm... political connections perhaps? Or, was it a situation where the rail line already existed and was incorporated into the system? This was the case with the Brighton Line, which was originally a commuter rail route that took beach-goers out to Coney Island.

[Jackson Pollock]

The Rockaway Line and bridge was an LIRR line, I believe.

[bluedog2]

I think a lot of the subway lines were built essentially going to nowheresville. They may have been built on a theory of if you build the lines,the development will follow.
There can't have been too many people living in the North and East Bronx back then either.