Does living in NY mean you'll never be able to buy a home? (Albany: rentals, coop)

[BKATL]

NewYorkBorn,

To add to the argument, NYC and the rest of the state has a higher cost of living. I should have clarified b4 that you don't necessarily have to buy a house in NYC, there is upstate, NJ, CT, maybe PA (too far commute for me) but either which way you'll be close to NYC when you're ready instead of being 500-800 miles away. Yes NYC has the bums on the subway and crime, every major city has its share of it in different ways. You may not agree with me, but we are in the times where hardly anyone can afford to buy a house anywhere in this country.

I thought life would be greater for our family and believe you me life is wonderful with a roof over our heads and rental to go along with it. But there's more to it than just going to work and coming home. There is not enough recreational, entertainment, no coast (at least where I'm at) and diverse culture.

I am not basing my experience on others, its my own that I'm referring to. Like I stated b4 I felt the same way you did 6 years ago, I came to the realization the grass was never greener. I never moved down with my job or NY pay, so until you experience the southern pay to go along with what you are used in NY you cannot understand. I took a pay cut of nearly $40K, with nothing even close to it trying to pay a mortgage, car insurance, utilities, food, entertainment, etc and having multiple jobs. You are very lucky to have your NY pay.

I feel stagnant with no growth in site, lets forget about what the ecnomy has to offer these days, its about thinking about different career paths for the future. I do not see this happening in GA. It is time to move on.

So far you like the south and that's fine and hope things stay the way are presently for you. I was never fully happy down here, I always felt kinda lost. I stand for what I believe and I can't wait to relocate to my home state. I rather deal with the northern culture, politics and higher cost of living way more than the south. I had enough of it....

[PerpetualDreamer]

Even for people coming from other very expensive cities in the US (like SF) owning a home in NYC (at least Manhattan) is going to be pretty tough because you'd have to be trading down even if you own in a an expensive area of a very expensive city, you'd still have to trade down to afford buying in Manhattan. For those who lived here since at least 1999 and rented and who were jaded by the recent bubble, and for whom buying was always a moving target with the prices skyrocketing year after year it's probably a relief to see the recent drops in pricing and makes sense to buy, just because they were waiting for so long. I guess, I can say that homeownership for many who waited through the bubble is more achievable or at least more rewarding now with falling prices. But for those coming from already very expensive cities owning in NYC is not a very desirable proposition because here you get so much less and besides, it's sooo much cheaper to rent! It's crazy how much difference it is in renting the place vs. buying the same place.

[mathjak107]

Thats why i keep saying its not that you throw money away renting, its that its all about what you do wih investing the difference between renting and buying that determines which is the better deal financialy..... i never ever say buy a house because otherwise you throw your rent money away.... they both are expenses

[bluedog2]

Originally Posted by PerpetualDreamer

... But for those coming from already very expensive cities owning in NYC is not a very desirable proposition because here you get so much less and besides, it's sooo much cheaper to rent! It's crazy how much difference it is in renting the place vs. buying the same place....

This might be true in some areas but cannot be generalized across the board.

The loan and maintenance on my apartment (co-op) is 1,425/mo.I bought it totally renovated with a new kitchen and bath,new elec,refinished floors,new appliances ,etc. The rent on a slightly smaller apartment in the building ,still owned by the sponsor,unrenovated,old appliances,etc is 1,250/mo. Almost all of the loan payment and 35% of my maintenance payment is tax deductible. So when you figure in the tax savings,it is actually cheaper for me to own my apartment than it would be to rent a smaller,not as nice apartment in the same building.

I think I am still ahead even if you figure in the "loss" of interest on the $17,500 downpayment that I paid.

I am in the middle of refinancing right now and my payments will soon go down by almost $200/mo.At that point there will be absolutely no question that it is far better for me to be owning,using anyone's formula or calculations.

[TheMachineStops]

This is an important point....and timing is often involved. If owning turns out to be cheaper than renting, it's a very positive sign. I pay about $940 ($680 Maint, $240 mortgage) on my village studio....It would rent for at least $2100. But I bought back in '93.

[mathjak107]

Originally Posted by bluedog2

This might be true in some areas but cannot be generalized across the board.

The loan and maintenance on my apartment (co-op) is 1,425/mo.I bought it totally renovated with a new kitchen and bath,new elec,refinished floors,new appliances ,etc. The rent on a slightly smaller apartment in the building ,still owned by the sponsor,unrenovated,old appliances,etc is 1,250/mo. Almost all of the loan payment and 35% of my maintenance payment is tax deductible. So when you figure in the tax savings,it is actually cheaper for me to own my apartment than it would be to rent a smaller,not as nice apartment in the same building.

I think I am still ahead even if you figure in the "loss" of interest on the $17,500 downpayment that I paid.

I am in the middle of refinancing right now and my payments will soon go down by almost $200/mo.At that point there will be absolutely no question that it is far better for me to be owning,using anyone's formula or calculations.

whats the difference if you were buying today in cost vs that rent...

alot of areas it takes a decade for the lines to cross where rents catch up to the cost of buying..... our co-op in kew gardens started life costing us in 1987 1200 per month after putting down 20% and paid 75,000... ...we could only rent it for 800 .00 a month....then new york got creamed after the 1987 crash and my apartment fell from 75,000 to 57,000... it took over 15 years of rent increases until the rent was actually more then our cost..... today the apartment in kew gardens is about 150-160,000 but the rent is about 1300-1500.... its a one bedroom and no longer a rental as my ex wife lives there so im guessing at the rent it could get...again way below the current cost of buying today

[bluedog2]

Originally Posted by mathjak107

whats the difference if you were buying today in cost vs that rent...

alot of areas it takes a decade for the lines to cross where rents catch up to the cost of buying.....

I think you missed my point.

I bought my apt a little over a year ago.With the tax deductions I was better off as a buyer from day 1. With the lower payments that will come with the refi I will be much better off . I don't have to wait at all for the break even point you are talking about.

There is another apartment in my building right now that you or anyone could buy tomorrow from the sponsor for around 160,000 with 10% down or rent for $1,200. There is also a studio that is for sale for 95,000 that you could either buy for 85 or 90 or rent for 950/mo.With these numbers and the interest rates as low as they are you are in the better position owning right away.

I know that this is not the situation everywhere and there are places where it might be better to rent.Those places had a real estate bubble. My point is that there is no one NYC real estate market or one regional RE market anywhere.No matter what is going on in the country or in any area there are always situations where things are different.You can't generalize.

[mathjak107]

that worked out great for you....more ofton then not no way can someone buy for less then renting unless its a special situation..... they would have to put down a ton of money to get the payments and taxes or maintaince low enough in the early years .....

[bluedog2]

Originally Posted by mathjak107

that worked out great for you....more ofton then not no way can someone buy for less then renting unless its a special situation..... they would have to put down a ton of money to get the payments and taxes or maintaince low enough in the early years .....

Probably because it's The Bronx,where there was no bubble and things are priced vastly below other sections of the city.

[NewYorkBorn]

Originally Posted by BKATL

NewYorkBorn,

To add to the argument, NYC and the rest of the state has a higher cost of living. I should have clarified b4 that you don't necessarily have to buy a house in NYC, there is upstate, NJ, CT, maybe PA (too far commute for me) but either which way you'll be close to NYC when you're ready instead of being 500-800 miles away. Yes NYC has the bums on the subway and crime, every major city has its share of it in different ways. You may not agree with me, but we are in the times where hardly anyone can afford to buy a house anywhere in this country.

I thought life would be greater for our family and believe you me life is wonderful with a roof over our heads and rental to go along with it. But there's more to it than just going to work and coming home. There is not enough recreational, entertainment, no coast (at least where I'm at) and diverse culture.

I am not basing my experience on others, its my own that I'm referring to. Like I stated b4 I felt the same way you did 6 years ago, I came to the realization the grass was never greener. I never moved down with my job or NY pay, so until you experience the southern pay to go along with what you are used in NY you cannot understand. I took a pay cut of nearly $40K, with nothing even close to it trying to pay a mortgage, car insurance, utilities, food, entertainment, etc and having multiple jobs. You are very lucky to have your NY pay.

I feel stagnant with no growth in site, lets forget about what the ecnomy has to offer these days, its about thinking about different career paths for the future. I do not see this happening in GA. It is time to move on.

So far you like the south and that's fine and hope things stay the way are presently for you. I was never fully happy down here, I always felt kinda lost. I stand for what I believe and I can't wait to relocate to my home state. I rather deal with the northern culture, politics and higher cost of living way more than the south. I had enough of it....

To each his own, I wish you happiness wherever you end up. For sure NYC has way more to offer as far as career choices and job diversity. Bottom line is there is going to be a trade off no matter what......we can not have it all. You mention taking a pay cut......that was the first mistake.......wish I would have known you would have told you never come to the south if you have to take a pay cut......job diversity does not exist down here, they are too dependent on a few small industries and yes the pay sucks down here if you are someone who is born, raised and then stay in the south but that is another topic. If the company would have even mentioned the word pay cut to me there is no way on earth I would have ever moved to the south. Life in the south without a good paying job is misery..........life in any city without having a good paying job is misery.

You should stop by the Greenville, SC forum.........I am having major arguments with them on this same topic.....we are arguing about the fact that job opportunities are not plentiful in the south. They just refuse to accept the truth that the south has a long way to go as far as pay scale. As far as housing the south is still the place you can get more bang for your dollars.......although I would recommend people considering moving down here to have their own business.......job opportunities suck down here!