Does living in NY mean you'll never be able to buy a home? (rent, mortgage)

[nyc2chux]

We owned an 800 sq ft, 1 br co-op in Kensington, Brooklyn for 10 years before giving up trying to find a house in the 5 boroughs comparable for what the apartment sold for, which was 250K. Staten Island was our last hope where a 1300 sq ft, 3 br townhouse was 400K.

A year ago, we decided to head to Charleston, SC, a market considered expensive by Southern standards. We found a 1300 sq ft, 3 br house in North Charleston, an industrial suburb not considered part of the circuit of popular communities, for 200K with a huge yard and a driveway long enough for 4 cars, not including the carport.

Here's the important part of this. Our household income dropped by about 35% when we moved here, while the cost of many things such as food and clothes didn't change much. And some things such as services like dry cleaning, getting a haircut and having someone do your taxes can be a lot more. We're not even talking about household and auto maintanence yet.

This is my first house, and man let me tell you it's overwhelming at times. Luckily we bought a 5-year old home that has needed only minor things done, but I can see it coming down the road; such as the air conditioner, insulation, roof, gutters, new appliances, and the list can go on if I let it. And we ain't even talked about what I WANT to do to the place yet! So why did we buy into this, and leave the familiarity of the city, neighborhood, family and friends in NY?

When I sit in my backyard at night I hear nothing but crickets and birds. I grow vegetables in my garden 10 months of the year. They get a snow flurry about once every 5 years here. It takes me 13 minutes to go 9 miles to work. The beach is 16 miles away, but takes me about 20 minutes. I can swim in the ocean until Nov. We decided to go downtown last evening for dinner, and when we went to park in the lot, a total stranger gave us his ticket saying he had 3 hrs left on it, wouldn't take our money, and told us to have a nice evening.

[Forest_Hills_Daddy]

Guys, if the case for public school taxes were persuasive enough, then it should be able to stand on its own merits and features without having to make analogies with the police, firemen, libraries and parks. Considering that in many suburban communities within the NYC metro area, public schools eat up half or more of the property tax bill, there ought to be a more specific answer than simply saying "because everyone has to pay for firefighters". So why are public school taxes good for an entire community, including families that would be happier to send their kids to private schools instead? Or are public school taxes really good only for some people in the community but not for others?

Now we know one reason why it's difficult to buy a home in NY.

[Dark of the Moon]

Originally Posted by Forest_Hills_Daddy

Guys, if the case for public school taxes were persuasive enough, then it should be able to stand on its own merits and features without having to make analogies with the police, firemen, libraries and parks. Considering that in many suburban communities within the NYC metro area, public schools eat up half or more of the property tax bill, there ought to be a more specific answer than simply saying "because everyone has to pay for firefighters". So why are public school taxes good for an entire community, including families that would be happier to send their kids to private schools instead? Or are public school taxes really good only for some people in the community but not for others?

Now we know one reason why it's difficult to buy a home in NY.

We can continue to debate this topic, but it'll need to go in a different thread, as it's off-topic for this one.

[NewYorkBorn]

Originally Posted by ChasT

I totally agree with you NewYorkBorn. Im from the south born and raised I chose to leave and move to NYC and thats a decision that I dont regret.

It is like I have said many times each area of the country is known for it's strengths and it's weaknesses. The south is known for southern hospitality and good food and low paying jobs. New York City is known for diverse job opportunities, high paying jobs..........also known for very high cost of living, crime and overcrowding. Where people decide to live boils down to what their goals are. My goal was homeownership.......so I went where I could afford to purchase a home (south carolina). Now I don't like the pay scales here in South Carolina (poverty level pay scales) so I may return to NYC (still have my family there) lock up my home and get me a good paying job.

No place on earth is perfect there are always going to be trade offs! Good for you though.......unlike most that are born/raised in the south you were open minded enough to move to NYC and see what other places had to offer.

[homeowner35]

Originally Posted by mathjak107

the vagaries in new york for renters really is pretty stable... the city dosnt have the huge real estate tax swings the other areas do and rental increases even on unstabilized apartments have been around 3% for the last 2 decades ..... while everyone thinks your at some landlords mercy the numbers usually fall out about the same year after year except if it was an area that went thru a transformaton ..... long island city, williamsburg and parts of harlem come to mind but usually those areas were below the other areas to start with

i think i mentioned we rent in a building in bay terrace....if we bought our apartment it would be over 300,000 bucks.... our rent is covered just by the interest we get on some municipal bonds on that 300,000.... we would still have to pay an additional 900 a month or so in maintaince if we bought.... our savings by renting is over 900 a month.... that pays a decade or more of rent increases.. if you invest the 300,000 and the 900 a month in index funds the odds are you would probley have enough over time to buy two apartments in time

There are people who own and can still save $900.00 per month because they bought during the right time. I respect your opinion but you do not relate to the average Joe. You bought a home and used the proceeds to improve your investment portfolio. Homeownership did help you. It is good to present the good and negative points of homeownership but not everyone has the money to pay rent and invest in index funds.

[homeowner35]

Originally Posted by nyc2chux

We owned an 800 sq ft, 1 br co-op in Kensington, Brooklyn for 10 years before giving up trying to find a house in the 5 boroughs comparable for what the apartment sold for, which was 250K. Staten Island was our last hope where a 1300 sq ft, 3 br townhouse was 400K.

A year ago, we decided to head to Charleston, SC, a market considered expensive by Southern standards. We found a 1300 sq ft, 3 br house in North Charleston, an industrial suburb not considered part of the circuit of popular communities, for 200K with a huge yard and a driveway long enough for 4 cars, not including the carport.

Here's the important part of this. Our household income dropped by about 35% when we moved here, while the cost of many things such as food and clothes didn't change much. And some things such as services like dry cleaning, getting a haircut and having someone do your taxes can be a lot more. We're not even talking about household and auto maintanence yet.

This is my first house, and man let me tell you it's overwhelming at times. Luckily we bought a 5-year old home that has needed only minor things done, but I can see it coming down the road; such as the air conditioner, insulation, roof, gutters, new appliances, and the list can go on if I let it. And we ain't even talked about what I WANT to do to the place yet! So why did we buy into this, and leave the familiarity of the city, neighborhood, family and friends in NY?

When I sit in my backyard at night I hear nothing but crickets and birds. I grow vegetables in my garden 10 months of the year. They get a snow flurry about once every 5 years here. It takes me 13 minutes to go 9 miles to work. The beach is 16 miles away, but takes me about 20 minutes. I can swim in the ocean until Nov. We decided to go downtown last evening for dinner, and when we went to park in the lot, a total stranger gave us his ticket saying he had 3 hrs left on it, wouldn't take our money, and told us to have a nice evening.

That's priceless.

[NewYorkBorn]

Originally Posted by homeowner35

There are people who own and can still save $900.00 per month because they bought during the right time. I respect your opinion but you do not relate to the average Joe. You bought a home and used the proceeds to improve your investment portfolio. Homeownership did help you. It is good to present the good and negative points of homeownership but not everyone has the money to pay rent and invest in index funds.

Kudos on this response. Purchasing in NYC has a lot to do with timing. I grew up in downtown Brooklyn, single parent home. My mother raised me and my brother on a hospital salary..........we lived in a housing project and in spite of the beautiful brownstone houses just 2 blocks down could never afford to purchase them. That was 20 - 30 years ago when brownstones in downtown Brooklyn could still be purchased for a reasonable price.........now those same houses (even the ones that need to be completely gutted out and renovated) are selling for $1 million - $3.2 million dollars! Talk about timing......if people could not afford to purchase homes in the areas like Brooklyn which are closer to Manhattan 20 - 30 years ago then they sure can not afford to buy those houses now. Not everyone in NYC is making a six figure salary in a Manhattan office!

[mathjak107]

Originally Posted by homeowner35

There are people who own and can still save $900.00 per month because they bought during the right time. I respect your opinion but you do not relate to the average Joe. You bought a home and used the proceeds to improve your investment portfolio. Homeownership did help you. It is good to present the good and negative points of homeownership but not everyone has the money to pay rent and invest in index funds.

the discussion of buying vs renting would only apply to those that have the choice.... if you dont have the money or cant afford to buy then there is no choice.... thats why i drew the comparison between the 2 and that it was all about how you invested the difference saved each month renting...

yes the average joe in new york will not be able to have the luxury of deciding to buy or rent, for them its just rent out of default or else they would be able to have that choice.

its kind of one of those circles, you need the dough to have the choice, if there is not enough dough to have to make the choice then you have no choice....

[homeowner35]

Originally Posted by mathjak107

the discussion of buying vs renting would only apply to those that have the choice.... if you dont have the money or cant afford to buy then there is no choice.... thats why i drew the comparison between the 2 and that it was all about how you invested the difference saved each month renting...

yes the average joe in new york will not be able to have the luxury of deciding to buy or rent, for them its just rent out of default or else they would be able to have that choice.

its kind of one of those circles, you need the dough to have the choice, if there is not enough dough to have to make the choice then you have no choice....

I believe you misunderstood my posting. I meant the average Joe can not pay rent and invest. You are encouraging people to rent and invest. Based on your postings, you did not do that.

I represent the average Joe and I own a home. Hardwork, sacrifice and realistic expectations can go a long way. You have to learn to crawl before you walk. Yes, not everyone will ever afford to own a home. Some people simply should not. But, I do not want people to believe that if they rent and invest $100.00 a month that they are better off than homeowners in the long run. Remember, a mortgage can be paid off. A renter will have to pay rent forever. Many renters pay for their own utlilities. The only difference is property taxes and homeowner's insurance; some renters do pay renter's insurance. Yes, money needs to be set aside for home maintenace and repairs. Thank God for the HELOC loan. You do not have to pay for it unless you use it.

[mathjak107]

YES thats what im saying the average joe who is renting can not invest the money hes not spending on buying, he dosnt have it.... the person im refering to is the person who has the money for a down payment and the extra montly payments to buy but dosnt... hes the one with the extra money hes saving by renting in the early years and saving the down payment...........

and yes long term the renter/investor may comeout very ahead of the home buyer financially..... my own numbers did it for me....i had the luxury of doing both and tracking each seperatly