Leaving your NYC home - my personal questions about the diaspora (New York: real estate, crime rate)

[terribleChild]

I think one of the main reasons for people to feel that their beloved diverse neighborhood during childhood has evolved into something more segregated, is due to their own natural transition from children to adults. As children, we tend to prefer to hangout with a lot of other kids, no matter the ethnic background, and we had the time to hangout. But as people grow up, they tend to become more career oriented and have less time to socialize with neighbors and old friends. I can't think of any adults in my neighborhood that hangs out with neighbors just for the hell of it.

I'm sure everyone had diverse friends when they were kids. But living in adulthood is another reality, where the people we see for 9 hours a day live all over the place and we tend to not have the energy to befriend our neighbors. Let me ask you this: have any of you taken the initiative to get to know your Asian, Russian, or Hispanic neighbors, instead of just complaining that their existence is threatening your good memories?

[sol1111]

Originally Posted by terribleChild

I think one of the main reasons for people to feel that their beloved diverse neighborhood during childhood has evolved into something more segregated, is due to their own natural transition from children to adults. As children, we tend to prefer to hangout with a lot of other kids, no matter the ethnic background, and we had the time to hangout. But as people grow up, they tend to become more career oriented and have less time to socialize with neighbors and old friends. I can't think of any adults in my neighborhood that hangs out with neighbors just for the hell of it.

I'm sure everyone had diverse friends when they were kids. But living in adulthood is another reality, where the people we see for 9 hours a day live all over the place and we tend to not have the energy to befriend our neighbors. Let me ask you this: have any of you taken the initiative to get to know your Asian, Russian, or Hispanic neighbors, instead of just complaining that their existence is threatening your good memories?

You're 100% correct about this, but the problem is that even if I were to befriend everyone in my building, all of my friends would be people 20 - 30 years older than me. One of the cornerstones of my issues is that my home doesn't really seem like a viable option for people my age and background to begin the next stages of their lives anymore, as opposed to how it was for our parents.

[TigerLily24]

Originally Posted by sol1111

The negativeness of the impression really has more to do with what the adults are doing rather than the kids. Just the soulessness of living there, the unhappy marriages, the snobbishness, etc. Anything negative you can think of about the suburbs, I get the impression LI is the epitome of. I see people at work sleeping around, a successful Jamaican woman who is a bigshot in the company tells me how she feels isolated and would be more comfortable living in Canarsie back in Brooklyn (only if it wasn't so dangerous now), my cousin tells me how the kids in her schools were snobs. I really wish I was wrong about it, and I'll probably end up there anyway, but with all of this reinforcement going on, how could I not think the way I do?

And the fact that your kids all moved all over the country is just another confirmation that the place I once knew, and the place they found acceptable aand were happy with, is gone.

As an aside, I lived on Avenue V, when did you live on Ocean and U?

I don't dispute that there is 'drama' in the 'burbs and I also don't dispute some of the attitudes that kids develop, though I would rather raise a 'snob' than a 'wanna-be gangster.' Kids grow up fast in Brooklyn.

The reality that I think leads people to leave is that the high cost of living and cattle-car commuting wears you down and leaves little, if any time, to do the things that you tell yourself you are working for. What good is living in the greatest city in the world if you can't take advantage of all it has to offer?

Now we all have the pleasure of being able to sit in our respective back yards and listen to birds instead of sirens. People smile in the grocery store and actually make eye-contact. Those of us outside the NYC metro area live in new to newer (20 years or less) houses that cost a fraction of what similar houses would cost in the NYC metro area.
We do miss the beach though

We lived in that area from the mid 80s - late 90s.

[sol1111]

Originally Posted by TigerLily24

I don't dispute that there is 'drama' in the 'burbs and I also don't dispute some of the attitudes that kids develop, though I would rather raise a 'snob' than a 'wanna-be gangster.' Kids grow up fast in Brooklyn.

The reality that I think leads people to leave is that the high cost of living and cattle-car commuting wears you down and leaves little, if any time, to do the things that you tell yourself you are working for. What good is living in the greatest city in the world if you can't take advantage of all it has to offer?

Now we all have the pleasure of being able to sit in our respective back yards and listen to birds instead of sirens. People smile in the grocery store and actually make eye-contact. Those of us outside the NYC metro area live in new to newer (20 years or less) houses that cost a fraction of what similar houses would cost in the NYC metro area.
We do miss the beach though

We lived in that area from the mid 80s - late 90s.

I know there are\were plenty kids that are punks around here, but its not like we lived in bed-stuy or brownsville - the idea of kids "growing up fast" to me applies to places that were much worse off than ours is\was.

About the housing thing, a guy I work with commutes from philly every day (chinatown bus). I was over his house for a bbq and my jaw dropped when I found out his place cost 100K.

Can you tell me more about the commuting, jobs, lifestyle, etc. around where you are as compared to where I am now?

[gradstudent77]

Originally Posted by sol1111

You're 100% correct about this, but the problem is that even if I were to befriend everyone in my building, all of my friends would be people 20 - 30 years older than me. One of the cornerstones of my issues is that my home doesn't really seem like a viable option for people my age and background to begin the next stages of their lives anymore, as opposed to how it was for our parents.

Its a self-reinforcing cycle: people move to the places where there are a lot of people that are like them, so when a person is looking for a place to live, they will tend to settle in a place that has lots of people like him or her. Its the same for your question about why some families feel "forced out" of their old neighborhood and why you don't like how few people in your neighborhood seem to be your age.

[Elvira Black]

Very interesting topic; kudos to the OP.

Though I'm much older, I never married, never had kids, and never even considered leaving NYC. My ex-boyfriend's parents lived in Nassau County, and though it was OK to visit, it was always a relief to get back home (which for a long time was Manhattan and is now the Bronx).

I have had some harrowing times here in the past two years, but in the end I really do love it here. Perhaps one of the reasons is the large Latino population, who tend to be less exclusionary than some other groups appear to be. But of course I've also encountered a few hassles, and the gangsta mentality in the hood is pretty prevalent. Personally, I don't care as long as no one messes with me. I like the diversity (that tired old word) immensely....this area is a mix of Koreans, Caribbeans, Africans, Latinos, African Americans, and so on.

To me there is a definite neighborhood feel here as soon as I leave my complex, and I love it dearly. The area is full of shoppers on Fordham Road, and all sorts of different people.

My best friends parents lived in Wisconsin for years in a small town, and it was so homogenous that it seemed downright unhealthy. Here you can see the mixing of races and it does produce some beautiful looking folks. When I see tourists on the subway, they stick out like crazy because they are so...well...super white (lol)

Oh and there's also plenty of young white students in and around Fordham University, but most of them seem to live on campus.

Ad far as areas where a young person might feel more at home, there might be parts of Riverdale, or really anywhere near a college campus. Some areas to the north/west of me (Riverdale, Norwood) as well as parts of Queens seem to have more of a nightlife of some sort.

Lastly, the Bronx is slowly building up, and generally younger people move to the areas close to the borders of Manhattan, til the area becomes too gentrified to be affordable.

You might want to share an apt with a roomate in an area that is not as family intensive?

But I understand your plight very well. NYC is both the most multicultural, yet arguably the most segregated, area I can think of. People tend to become very insulated in their little sqare radius 'hood, whether it be the "never travel above 14th Street" Manhattan downtowners, or the Queens/NJ/LI residents who never step foot in the city that never sleeps...

I've always felt that suburbs are pretty much all the same...some are more well off than others, while some are downright ghetto and run down (and don't forget trailer parks lol).

I agree with the poster who said that white flight occurred both because of the changes in the economy and the resulting influx of more people of color. Many whites seem to have a vast fear of them. I've even met people of color who live in more exclusive areas who feel the same way.

[Elvira Black]

Oh btw...there's a site called Meetup.com you might want to check out. It's not a pickup/dating site, but it seems like a great way to meet people because there are literally hundreds, if not thousands of meetup groups based on every interest you could imagine. It is hard to meet people in this city, and I've been meaning to go to more of these (but I've been guilty of the hood syndrome since moving here too, and hardly ever leave my area, let alone travel to the (gasp) City anymore lol...but heck, you're young and have more energy lol.

But seriously, do check it out...you'll be amazed and pleased. It's a terrific site and a great idea all around (they have sites for other areas of the country as well). And it's free!

[Otis_Nevins]

My opinion is that if you own your home in NYC, why consider leaving? Learn the new languages you're hearing, eat the food, etc. If you're not an owner, you can go anywhere, but you've got to determine if Balkanizing (in both directions) is something to which you want to contribute. Me, I'd stay; Sheepshead Bay is very nice and the fishing is lots of fun.

[Elvira Black]

I tend to agree; "logic" tells me that if you're an old-timer so to speak there's much less chance of being actively harassed versus newcomers. Some newcomers may be clannish but that's just NYC for you. I think that everyone is clannish, even among there "own kind" here. It's probably a question of developing your own network of friends. When I lived in Manhattan, for example, I did not find that people were going outta their way to meet anyone. When I was younger and living on the UES for 12 years, I only knew my next door neighbor (slightly, but he was a nice guy). Others in the building not only didn't talk to you but some would look at you very cockeyed (lol).

For a young person, of course you can move anywhere but I think that NYC is probably the best place to meet up with others who have more in common with you. May involve some traveling or convincing people to come out to the "hinterlands" but if there are attractions of some sort to offer it might overcome that infamous NYC lethargy (lol).

[NooYowkur81]

Originally Posted by bluedog2

If you really grew up in a multi ethnic ghetto you were very lucky. I don't think that's the norm. I didn't grow up in NY but I grew up in an ethnic ghetto ( Irish) in Boston and it was very closed to everyone else . The Italians had their neighborhoods,the Jews had theirs,the blacks had theirs,etc,etc.There wasn't much mixing and there would be fights when outsiders came in.Everyone stuck to their own neighborhood and defended their turf.

I can't imagine that NY or any other city was much different.I have been living here ( NY) for 35 years and I always thought it was the same.I live in The Bronx now and as far as I can tell the remnants are still here.Woodlawn is very ,very Irish and I don't think they really welcome outsiders.Morris Park is very Italian and it is the same there.Not like it was back in the 50's and 60's because there has been more blending but they are still known as either Irish or Italian.If your skin is dark they look at you suspiciously and might not rent to you.

People love to forget that there were racial and ethnic gangs in all the cities not that long ago fighting to keep "others" out of their neighborhoods just because they were different.

My parents totally freaked out when they found out that my sister was dating and got engaged to an Italian.The fighting and screaming was unbelievable.They threatened to disown her.This too was common not that long ago.

I've seen the stats for Morris Park and its actually a lot more mixed than people think.

http://www.nyc.gov/html/dcp/pdf/lucds/bx11profile.pdf