Central Bronx Appears to be Turning Around (Clay, Eden: crime, houses)

[DAS]

Originally Posted by Curiousguyeducator

But there's one issue I'd like to touch on regarding these subtle signs of improvement. To some degree, I feel that they are signs of gentrification. Many people are under the impression that unless they see a Starbucks, some al fresco eateries, and a couple of white people, a neighborhood is not on the come up. I disagree. Gentrification occurs when people of a higher income move into a neighborhood.

I'll use myself, a latino, as an example. When I first moved into this neighborhood, I rented a two bedroom apartment for $1,350 in a building where the majority of the old tenants were accustomed to paying $900-$1,000. The fact that I'm willing to fork over that much more money encourages the landlord to start renting two-bedroom apartments for that amount of money, because he can get away with it. And before you know it, other landlords in the area follow suit. Just the other day I learned that someone is renting out a two-bedroom apt. in house a couple of blocks away from me for $1,500.


But now, check this out: about 10 blocks to the southeast of, in Morrisiana, you can find a two-bedroom for about 900. No kidding. Why? Because projects and other types of low-income housing abound in the area. Because there aren't as many housing projects in the Central Bronx, many areas along the Concourse are slowing improving and attracting middle-class residents (hispanics, asians, and a few whites). These days you'd have hard time finding a two-bedroom apartment for under 1,300 in the Central Bronx. Even the locals will tell you, and will also comment on how crime has gone way down.

However, as is the case with most of The Bronx, there are many side streets that are grimy-looking.

that really is the definition of gentrification, people with a higher income moving into an area. however we have to be careful with examples of rents and other things, because there are other ways to look at this.

in this area where bronx lebenon hospital is located the mt eden area, there are plenty of landlords receiving excellent rents from subsidies such as section 8, and also some landlords that have turned parts of their buildings over to nyc shelter system. in the case of the former they are probably receiving more than 1300 dollars for a 2 bedroom. in the latter case they making out like bandits and forcing the working class residents out of the building, because most times this allows all types of people to move into a building, sometimes there are serious reasons why people end up in the shelter system besides being behind in their rent. the point is that this area is not in the condition that it is in because of low rents.

no there are not housing projects around, but there are these shelter type situations, and sro's along the concourse, also part of the shelter system for single people. this is far more dangerous than the projects at the present time because the projects will evict criminals.

there are plenty of hard working law abiding people that will keep up the property, that would love a decent apt but can't pay 1300 and may choose to live in this area just to have a place to stay. i know someone that very recently renovated an apt in the parkchester complex, that is in one of the buildings, that is close the 6 train stop. everything is brand new in the apt. they rented the apt to someone that earns over 100k. the rent they are charging is 1000 dollars a month because it took almost a year to find a working qualified person or couple with a good credit history, and employment. why would someone with a 100k income rent there, you may ask. the answer is because they are divorced, they have to pay child support, tuition and other things for their child. so they want to live in a convenient place to transportation, and shops. they also want to provide as safer place for their child to visit as possible.

now would you pay 1000 to live in parkchester or 1300 to live over by bronx lebanon hospital i'm just asking.

[DAS]

Originally Posted by topdog09

I totally agree. Since the 70's up until now, the majority of people that live in the Bronx are poor, low income people who depend on welfare and rent programs to get by. When these people started to invade and inflitrate working class neighborhoods, "white flight" occured and many working people fled the Bronx as a result.

I would say 85% of the people that live in the Bronx are poor/low income people. A co-relation of being poor is unfortunately having a high crime rate in poor neighborhoods which sparks neighborhood decay, crime and horrible quality of life conditions.

For this specific reason, I thing affluent people need to move into the Bronx to balance out the scale. Right now the scale leans way too much on the poor side. It's not even close.

We already saw what the poor side has to offer Bronx neighborhoods, now let's see what a more middle class society in the Bronx has to offer.

Introduce more affluent or middle class people to the Bronx and watch neighborhoods get better and more desirable. Crime will drop and quality of life improves.

Investors would want a piece of the action and build beautiful eye-pleasing buildings/coops to acommedate this new boom of middle class folks moving into the Bronx which increases curb appeal in the neighborhood. The city sees the potential and pumps in money to improve Bronx infastructures and before you know it, the Bronx has shed its evil reputation of being a dumping ground for poor people and a crime infested borough.

All of this is very possible and currently happening in the Bronx at a VERY slow rate. The new Yankee Stadium is just the begining. 10 years from now the Bronx will be much improved and be a more desirable place to live. Just watch.

i don't think it's only about white flight, it's about the flight of the working middle class period. i think if the bronx and sections of the city that have declined, and need a rebirth, the powers that be need to see beyond skin color, and wealth. it is not easy to live in this city on the grind. a person is not going to go out everyday work hard, and live in crap, and worry about their children getting back and forth to school safely, and if they can't afford parochial or private school, to also have to worry about their safety on school. also you don't have to be white or wealthy to want your child to have more than a substandard education. you also don't want to have to live miles away from getting good nutritious food, not sugary salty junk. these are the types of things that will have to be corrected in the central bronx on some small levels before things can look like they are turning around.

it will take more home owner opportunities, like coops, condos etc for the working class to be able to turn it around. home ownership can shape a neighborhood like nothing else.

[Curiousguyeducator]

Truthfully, i would stay right where I am because because i consider the area to be relatively safe. In addition, there are very few shelters by the Mt. Eden area. In fact, that I know of, there is only one, but that's after Jerome and not part of Mt Eden. Most of the shelters that I know of are found east of Webster Avenue. Trust me, I know because I've looked into this. I honestly find the area surrounding the Bronx Lebanon hospital to be pretty decent.

A quick glance at your email may lead someone to believe that the Concourse is full of shelters but that's not the case. Morrisiana is full of shelters, not the Concourse, at least definitely not by Mt. Eden (as far as I know).

As for living by Parkchester, yes, I would probably prefer Parkchester over Mt. Eden. However, I would not move out of Mt. Eden if given the opportunity to move out there. As I stroll through Mt. Eden, I see a beautiful park, a farmer's market, and decent, well-kept AND privately owned brick houses. Also, many working class people. You should see it for yourself.

I'm telling you, I've lived and have worked in many different neighborhoods: Woodhaven in Queens; Bushwick and Fresh Pond in Brooklyn; Washington Heights and Harlem in Manhattan; Crotona, Kingsbridge (by 231st area), and now Mt. Eden by the Concourse in the Bronx. I'm a nomad. Judging from everything I've seen, I consider the Mt Eden area to be fairly decent, an ethnic working-class neighborhood.

[Curiousguyeducator]

Make no mistake about it, I still consider this area the "hood," but not "hood" enough to be unpleasant to live in.

[Curiousguyeducator]

Morrisiana and Mott Haven are extremly "hood."

[Curiousguyeducator]

Originally Posted by DAS

i don't think it's only about white flight, it's about the flight of the working middle class period. i think if the bronx and sections of the city that have declined, and need a rebirth, the powers that be need to see beyond skin color, and wealth. it is not easy to live in this city on the grind. a person is not going to go out everyday work hard, and live in crap, and worry about their children getting back and forth to school safely, and if they can't afford parochial or private school, to also have to worry about their safety on school. also you don't have to be white or wealthy to want your child to have more than a substandard education. you also don't want to have to live miles away from getting good nutritious food, not sugary salty junk. these are the types of things that will have to be corrected in the central bronx on some small levels before things can look like they are turning around.

it will take more home owner opportunities, like coops, condos etc for the working class to be able to turn it around. home ownership can shape a neighborhood like nothing else.

This is exactly why I feel the area is not as bad. There are a lot of privately owned houses, especially around Morris Avenue.

[DAS]

Originally Posted by Curiousguyeducator

Truthfully, i would stay right where I am because because i consider the area to be relatively safe. In addition, there are very few shelters by the Mt. Eden area. In fact, that I know of, there is only one, but that's after Jerome and not part of Mt Eden. Most of the shelters that I know of are found east of Webster Avenue. Trust me, I know because I've looked into this. I honestly find the area surrounding the Bronx Lebanon hospital to be pretty decent.

A quick glance at your email may lead someone to believe that the Concourse is full of shelters but that's not the case. Morrisiana is full of shelters, not the Concourse, at least definitely not by Mt. Eden (as far as I know).

As for living by Parkchester, yes, I would probably prefer Parkchester over Mt. Eden. However, I would not move out of Mt. Eden if given the opportunity to move out there. As I stroll through Mt. Eden, I see a beautiful park, a farmer's market, and decent, well-kept AND privately owned brick houses. Also, many working class people. You should see it for yourself.

i have seen it for myself, i used to visit my friends that i mentioned in my first post on this thread. they have not closed those shelters on the concourse, they are still there. i am not referring to the entire concourse just this area. maybe you don't know that they are shelters because they are sro hotels, but they are not really that, they are shelters. also the others are in apt buildings off the concourse, they are still regular apt buildings but they allow the nyc shelter system to rent some of them for shelter families. these families must abide by shelter rules and there is someone in the lobby to monitor them and their visitors. you may not know this, unless you live in those buildings. you cannot tell from the outside.

in both of these situations the sro's and the apt buildings are owned by private landlords, not the city. the city rents the apts, and rooms from these landlords at very high rates to use as housing for singles, and families. these rooms and apts are part of the shelter system while the city is leasing the spaces. in the case of the apt buildings, regular working tenants, not in the shelter system also live there. these are regular tenants not part of the shelter system renting from the landlord.

the people i knew there were working middle class people they recently moved. there could not have been such a big turn around in a few months. i know you are saying that it is slowly turning around, and you are seeing signs of this turn around. i agree there are nice houses around, there are also huge apts. my examples of the shelters are just showing that some landlords are getting a lot of money in the current conditions. they may not want things to turn around. its not about some working people moving in that can pay more rent. they won't be able to pay what the city will pay in the shelter system.

[7 Wishes]

Originally Posted by DAS

i don't think it's only about white flight, it's about the flight of the working middle class period. i think if the bronx and sections of the city that have declined, and need a rebirth, the powers that be need to see beyond skin color, and wealth. it is not easy to live in this city on the grind. a person is not going to go out everyday work hard, and live in crap, and worry about their children getting back and forth to school safely, and if they can't afford parochial or private school, to also have to worry about their safety on school. also you don't have to be white or wealthy to want your child to have more than a substandard education. you also don't want to have to live miles away from getting good nutritious food, not sugary salty junk. these are the types of things that will have to be corrected in the central bronx on some small levels before things can look like they are turning around.

it will take more home owner opportunities, like coops, condos etc for the working class to be able to turn it around. home ownership can shape a neighborhood like nothing else.

Nowadays, it is more a "bright flight", in which professionals and high income people of all races/colors, etc. are fleeing these kinds of areas. It's not just white folk anymore.

[DAS]

Originally Posted by 7 Wishes

Nowadays, it is more a "bright flight", in which professionals and high income people of all races/colors, etc. are fleeing these kinds of areas. It's not just white folk anymore.

that is a good way to put it. however in these areas there is some very good housing that probably needs renovating, in the area, as curiousguyeducator is pointing out. probably selling at prices that working/middle class homeowners can probably afford. alot of the middle class left years ago. for those that remain and for those that are returning, certain things need to be in place to keep them there. better basic shopping within walking distance. most people may not have a car in this area, it is similiar to manhattan in that it is not convenient to park. middle class people want certain services, they will not put up with not having them, they can go else where.

this area cannot in anyway attract wealthy people. it just can't. it really never could, no matter what the ethnicity of the people, they were always working middle class in this area before it decayed.

it will be hard to attract more middle class people to just come without investors willing to bring in the businesses and better services. the investors may not want to take the risk, because they may not think that the people there will pay for the services. there are enough people their now to warrant this type of investment. people have to shop outside of the neighborhood for most things.

my friend that lived in this area worked in lower manhattan and would go over to china town every week to and lug home fresh vegatables, fruits and fish because they were not readily available. you could easily see why she sees buying a completely renovated home in nj a big improvement. it is only a few path train stops from her job, and everything is in place for the middle class person.

[scatman]

One thing I am seeing is an increasing bar and nightlife scene.

Bruckner Grill, 138th and Bruckner Blvd
Mi Gente, Unionport Road in Parkchester
Mamaroso (sp), Castle Hill Avenue
718 Lounge, Tremont Ave, Throggs Neck
Bungalow 11 Lounge, Longwood Avenue, near the Bruckner
Jimmy's, at the norther tip of the Sheridan Expwy

I think all of the outer boroughs are witnessing clubs popping up, due to outrageous Manhattan rents and the fact that the "cabaret police" focuses on Manhattan more (see LES).

This could be both good and bad. Good in that there's nightlife and more commerce for the borough. Bad in that there's the potential for a lot of noise and craziness.