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Old 07-27-2007, 07:49 AM
 
54 posts, read 138,492 times
Reputation: 23
Default Gentrification is not a poverty solution

Gentrification is a lot easier to accomplish than wholesale poverty reduction for the poor residents of Bedford Park. Gentrification comes with new residents who 'find' a new nabe that is affordable at the start of the influx and boost prices/rents (along with cafes/bars and amenities) by the end. Unfortunately this often leaves old (poorer) residents displaced. The people who move in will not be poor no matter where they live, and the old (poorer) residents will be poor (unfortunately) wherever they live. The solution to the old residents' poverty lies in better education, a rejection of drugs and thug-culture and stronger family units at home, not in trendy cafes or real estate article about their neighborhood. The city and the country always play the shell game with poor people. They keep moving them around rather than helping them. Do you think the people living in West Harlem or Inwood are the same people who lived there 15 years ago, only better off financially? No. The old residents have been chased to other parts of city, and will eventually have to move from there as well. The new 'slums' might very well be outside of the city where the real estate/rent is cheaper...Mt Vernon? Hepstead, LI? Parts of Jersey?
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Old 07-27-2007, 10:00 AM
 
1,301 posts, read 1,898,810 times
Reputation: 708
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hustla718 View Post
Yodel is a mother who's knowledge of "the streets" is the name of her block. That's my two cents.

We need people who understand the community and want to change things, not idiots who are too naive to know something is wrong.
Hustla didn't your mommy teach you any manners?

Again, I've lived in the city for a long time, and my husband was born and raised in East Harlem. We're not naive, but we've found many things we really like about our neighborhood. We want to live in the city. We don't plan to and don't want to move to the suburbs, although some people on this forum seem to find that hard to understand. However, I really don't know if we've done the community any good. We haven't gotten involved, although I plan to. Our front yard kind of looks like crap. It's not that we don't care, but we're busy.

Judging from his posts, Hustla really doesn't seem too concerned with the poor. Rents and real estate prices have gone up dramatically over the last few years, and many people have been "pushed" elsewhere, including us. We were unable to get the property we wanted in Clinton, or Inwood where we used to live, so we found somewhere else. I know that Hustla thinks it's stupid to move to or buy property in most Bronx neighborhoods, but I think everyone who bought in the past few years would find themselves a lot wealthier if they sold today. But that's not our motivation. The increase in prices are only good if you are planning to leave the city and move somewhere less expensive. If you want to stay, the only effect they have on you is higher property taxes.
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Old 07-27-2007, 03:18 PM
 
522 posts, read 1,495,539 times
Reputation: 314
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hustla718 View Post
Why don't you finish High School before you start making assumptions in convestions on topics you know nothing of. If this is your way of getting back at me over the "best carib island" thread, sorry but your wrong in both cases.
You need to check your facts on both cases. I don't owe an ignorant comment like that an explanation, but what the heck, why not. I am starting Tulane University, one of the top 50 best universities in the country, in August. How's that for finishing HS?

And I've never seen a response in the "best carib island" thread, nor do I care to see what you have to say, quite frankly.

And best of all - topics I know nothing of? No, just living in the Bronx since 1991, that would mean that I know nothing at all of this place. And - ha, you'll appreciate this one - having family and friends that live all over the Bronx. By your own standards, that'd just about make me an expert in the area, now wouldn't it?

Tsk tsk tsk.

The only thing holding the Bronx back is people like you that feel the need to give off untrue, outdated information - notice I didn't use facts, as that's certainly not what you're giving.

Grow up.
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Old 07-27-2007, 03:34 PM
 
Location: Bronx, New York
1,765 posts, read 4,053,920 times
Reputation: 480
Quote:
Originally Posted by yodel View Post
I know that Hustla thinks it's stupid to move to or buy property in most Bronx neighborhoods, but I think everyone who bought in the past few years would find themselves a lot wealthier if they sold today.
....and this is why many people such as myself moved there. Right now, the BX is the last land of affordability in the City of New York.

However, big however, I've been looking at BX prices in the last year, and they have been creeping.......as Richard Pryor once asked, "Which way is up?"

1) The BX won't be affordabe for long!
2) It's hard to lose with regard to real estate in the City of New York
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Old 07-27-2007, 03:51 PM
 
1,536 posts, read 186,418 times
Reputation: -80
Quote:
Originally Posted by el luchador View Post
I am sure that Hustla and the other negative posters have had bad experiences with/knowledge of the Bronx. But this is not 1990 anymore. There is no crack epidemic. Why would the real estate section of every newspaper, big $ investors, the city and people who actually live in the nabe NOW lie? It really doesn't make sense. I can tell you from a first hand resident's lived experience...Bedford Park is not sliding into oblivion, in fact it is doing quite the opposite. These are the facts of 2007 NOT 1977 or 1997......
When you sell a car, you don't mention how many accidents it's been in. Real Estate is about sales. You say what you have to. The Times and other publications are motivated by real estate becauase they get $$$. Same with city administration.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moth View Post
Well, your typical gentrification is alot more doable than the paradigm shift you suggest. Gentrification, as you correctly imply, involves swapping residents- prosperous for poor. With money comes rebirth of the area, although not for the original residents who move on to other places.

What you suggest is certainly appealing and is ultimately the solution. But you are dealing with culture and although said culture can change, it takes a long, long time.
Yes but it really isn't right. In the end though, the people do need to help themselves. However all gentrification does is spread the old problems to a new place.

Quote:
Originally Posted by el luchador View Post
Gentrification is a lot easier to accomplish than wholesale poverty reduction for the poor residents of Bedford Park. Gentrification comes with new residents who 'find' a new nabe that is affordable at the start of the influx and boost prices/rents (along with cafes/bars and amenities) by the end. Unfortunately this often leaves old (poorer) residents displaced. The people who move in will not be poor no matter where they live, and the old (poorer) residents will be poor (unfortunately) wherever they live. The solution to the old residents' poverty lies in better education, a rejection of drugs and thug-culture and stronger family units at home, not in trendy cafes or real estate article about their neighborhood. The city and the country always play the shell game with poor people. They keep moving them around rather than helping them. Do you think the people living in West Harlem or Inwood are the same people who lived there 15 years ago, only better off financially? No. The old residents have been chased to other parts of city, and will eventually have to move from there as well. The new 'slums' might very well be outside of the city where the real estate/rent is cheaper...Mt Vernon? Hepstead, LI? Parts of Jersey?
Gentrification helps no one but the new wealthy residents.

Quote:
Originally Posted by yodel View Post
Hustla didn't your mommy teach you any manners?

Again, I've lived in the city for a long time, and my husband was born and raised in East Harlem. We're not naive, but we've found many things we really like about our neighborhood. We want to live in the city. We don't plan to and don't want to move to the suburbs, although some people on this forum seem to find that hard to understand. However, I really don't know if we've done the community any good. We haven't gotten involved, although I plan to. Our front yard kind of looks like crap. It's not that we don't care, but we're busy.

Judging from his posts, Hustla really doesn't seem too concerned with the poor. Rents and real estate prices have gone up dramatically over the last few years, and many people have been "pushed" elsewhere, including us. We were unable to get the property we wanted in Clinton, or Inwood where we used to live, so we found somewhere else. I know that Hustla thinks it's stupid to move to or buy property in most Bronx neighborhoods, but I think everyone who bought in the past few years would find themselves a lot wealthier if they sold today. But that's not our motivation. The increase in prices are only good if you are planning to leave the city and move somewhere less expensive. If you want to stay, the only effect they have on you is higher property taxes.
You just have no idea. My mother and I lived in a very nasty area while I was growing up, our building burned down when I was young and we lived in public housing a short time. She still is naive about the streets. Her life was work and being women the streets are not for her. Most females don't have a clue unless they are in gangs or prostitutes. What she does know is the streets are a negative place. You don't move to certain areas becuase they are negative and will drag you and your kids down but we had no choice.

I don't say it's stupid to move into Bronx neighborhoods. I say it's stupid to move into Bronx neighboborhoods I have watched decline over a period of many years. With no signs in sight of actually getting better.

Bedford Park is not the worst, but it has had better times and I don't exactly see it improving.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gv0928 View Post
You need to check your facts on both cases. I don't owe an ignorant comment like that an explanation, but what the heck, why not. I am starting Tulane University, one of the top 50 best universities in the country, in August. How's that for finishing HS?

And I've never seen a response in the "best carib island" thread, nor do I care to see what you have to say, quite frankly.

And best of all - topics I know nothing of? No, just living in the Bronx since 1991, that would mean that I know nothing at all of this place. And - ha, you'll appreciate this one - having family and friends that live all over the Bronx. By your own standards, that'd just about make me an expert in the area, now wouldn't it?

Tsk tsk tsk.

The only thing holding the Bronx back is people like you that feel the need to give off untrue, outdated information - notice I didn't use facts, as that's certainly not what you're giving.

Grow up.
So when you start college get back to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by scatman View Post
....and this is why many people such as myself moved there. Right now, the BX is the last land of affordability in the City of New York.

However, big however, I've been looking at BX prices in the last year, and they have been creeping.......as Richard Pryor once asked, "Which way is up?"

1) The BX won't be affordabe for long!
2) It's hard to lose with regard to real estate in the City of New York
1) Tell that to the people living in public housing across the South Bronx.
2) Everything comes to an end.

It's attack of the yuppies. Haha.
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Old 07-27-2007, 04:34 PM
 
54 posts, read 138,492 times
Reputation: 23
Default The Streets?

I'm not sure what animus you have toward the Bronx, Hustla. You seem to be stuck in the 1980s and 1990s. You seem to be caught on this 'knowledge of the streets' thing. People who don't buy or sell drugs nor belong to gangs nor hang out at 3am on street corners do not have knowledge of the 'streets' as you see it. And if that is the case, I would want more of my neighbors in Bedford Park to be ignorant of the streets. As for your comment about only women who are in gangs or prostitutes 'knowing the streets', I cannot think of a more sexist comment. Hustla, the reality of how things are now in 2007 and how you remember things are quite different. Is Bedford Park the Upper East Side?...Of course not, but it's certainly not Bushwick or Brownsville or even Hunts Point.
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Old 07-27-2007, 04:47 PM
 
1,536 posts, read 186,418 times
Reputation: -80
Quote:
Originally Posted by el luchador View Post
I'm not sure what animus you have toward the Bronx, Hustla. You seem to be stuck in the 1980s and 1990s. You seem to be caught on this 'knowledge of the streets' thing. People who don't buy or sell drugs nor belong to gangs nor hang out at 3am on street corners do not have knowledge of the 'streets' as you see it. And if that is the case, I would want more of my neighbors in Bedford Park to be ignorant of the streets. As for your comment about only women who are in gangs or prostitutes 'knowing the streets', I cannot think of a more sexist comment. Hustla, the reality of how things are now in 2007 and how you remember things are quite different. Is Bedford Park the Upper East Side?...Of course not, but it's certainly not Bushwick or Brownsville or even Hunts Point.
No one said Bedford Park was Hunts Point or Brownsville. However the neighbrohood has it's problems.

Years ago Bedford Park was similar to Morris Park, then it declined and has been for at least 2 decades now. Now it's more or less like Washington Heights today. Or at least getting very close. It's future is unsure becuase to the south is a ghetto, and to the north is another declineing area. Both are squeezing in on Moshulo Pkwy.

As for the women thing, your complaining i'm sexist? Haha, please. You think females are offered equal opportunity on the street. They are not. Young runaways get raped or willingly become *** recepticles. Female gang members are no more then a place to hide drugs (guess where). They get raped in and passed around like a toy. Women get beat, raped, smacked around, disrespected. The streets are all about who is stronger physically or psycologically. Who do you think takes the most abuse. I saw it all the time growing up and I see it now. They ain't exactly running drug gangs in the South Bronx.

And yes, the gang members, the ghetto youth, the crackheads, the drug dealers, these are the people with an ear to the street. When we look for information on something that happens, the only people that will have that info are those on the street. Not the mothers with kids, gettin them ready for school the next day. Not the teenage girls picking out their outfit for class. Not the yuppies who just moved into the area yesturday. It's the scum on the streets that have all the info. That know what is really going on. They need to know to survive. Everyone else doesn't know what the hell is going on.
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Old 07-27-2007, 05:26 PM
 
522 posts, read 1,495,539 times
Reputation: 314
lol.

Some of these kids are too funny. I give up on this thread - I have better things to do than argue with a guy with stubbornness equivalent to that of an 8-year-old.

BX = hotness.

Word.
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Old 07-27-2007, 07:10 PM
 
Location: Queens
841 posts, read 3,065,631 times
Reputation: 238
Default Biased

I dont want to get involved in this debate but from a third person point of view, both El Luchador and Hustla are biased. At the same time, both touch upon reality
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Old 07-27-2007, 08:40 PM
 
Location: New York City
563 posts, read 1,184,475 times
Reputation: 162
Well, since Hustla's a cop, his opinion is based on more experience. To us, the Bronx isn't as high at crime as Hustla says it is, but he's a cop and he deals with this stuff all the time, much more than we see on the news. It wouldn't be any different in Queens or Brooklyn, though, and it does make me sick to see that Hustla has no Bronx pride. He thinks everyone in the borough is a low income Hispanic or Black person, and constantly tackles demographics in his posts, which irritates me to the end. But again, it's the experience.
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