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Old 08-21-2007, 08:13 AM
 
54 posts, read 137,359 times
Reputation: 23
Default the numbers

Hustla, you don't even read the 7 year old stats properly. If you looked beyond the racial demographics, every other number is getting better.

Using your 7 year old stats: there is less child mortality, fewer people receiving financial assistance, the percent of total people receiving aid has dropped. That sounds like a good trend to me. Poverty must be decreasing, or at least the numbers seem to say so. I wonder what those numbers would look like in 2007?

You are myopically focused on race.

As for your pdf map about prison expenditure, it doesnít seem like the most accurate or precise tool. One can barely make out the neighborhoods on it.

Keep diggingÖ

Here are the numbers in black and white (no pun intended)
VITAL STATISTICS 1990 ...1999
Births (Number) 3,105 ...2,565
Births (Rate per 1000) 24.1 ...19.9
Deaths (Number) 1,237 ...873
Deaths (Rate per 1000) 9.6 ...6.8
Infant Mortality (Number) 43... 15
Infant Mortality (Rate per 1000) 13.8 ...5.8


INCOME SUPPORT 1994... 2000
Public Assistance (AFDC, Home Relief) 34,789 ...21,353
Supplemental Security Income 7,473 ...9,096
Medicaid Only 7,169 ...14,588
Total Persons Assisted 49,431 ...45,037
Percent of Population Assisted 38.4 ...31.9
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Old 08-21-2007, 09:38 AM
 
Location: Bronx, Beautiful Grand Concourse
67 posts, read 269,288 times
Reputation: 23
Itís sad that I started this thread, and itís causing such a big rumble now. Weíre living in the neighborhood now, and loving it. Some parts are sketchy, but my husband and I are pretty street smart. (He grew up in East Harlem, and Iím from East Elmhurst/Woodside). We donít have any kids yet so weíre not concerned about the public school system yet.

I went to Bronx science in the mid 90s. I loved Bedford Park, and I remember the upper students told us not to venture out to Fordham and below. But things have changed for the past 10 years. A few weeks ago, Cablevision news also pointed that Bedford Park is the best deal in the Bronx.

Thereís a nice bakery on Bedford park blvd by the 4 train, where you can get a good bagel. Their Italian cookies, bread and donuts are also good. They also specialize in ice cream cakes. But donít try their brownies, chocolate or other pastry cakes.. itís not too good. The nabe is convenient, and we love ethnic food in the area. It's not Park Slope but if you check out Village Voice and chowhound.com, they are some articles and recs about the food in the neighborhood.

[quote=el luchador;1310724]

To be honest the only thing I really miss about Brooklyn (Park Slope) is that I could get a good bagel and an iced coffee. Bedford Park Blvd is lacking in that area.
QUOTE]
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Old 08-21-2007, 01:24 PM
 
1,299 posts, read 1,867,289 times
Reputation: 708
I’ll throw my two cents back in to this.

We’re another middle class family (black and white) from Bedford Park. Putting the race issue aside for a moment, I don’t think the Irish immigrants who used to live in Bedford Park could be classified as middle class. As far as I know, they worked the same type of jobs as other new immigrants, with many in construction, painting and other trades. As for the current residents, there are still many whites even though they’re no longer the majority, and I’d say the majority of them are also immigrants (Albanian). I’ve heard so many negative things about the Albanians, but all of my experiences with them have been positive. The Albanians rule at the PS 8 playground in Bedford Park. What I mean is that usually when I go there, most of the kids playing are Albanian. They seem very family oriented, and the children are very respectful and well-behaved.

We recently had an ad in Craigslist for a rental in our house. It was priced competitively but definately not low. I was shocked at the response that we got from the ad. We were swamped with calls, many from people who currently live in Manhattan. All colors of people came to see the place, and I’d have to admit, a lot of people who I would not have expected to search for an apt. in the Bronx. I guess many people are looking to save money or just get something that they can afford in NYC.

I do believe that the Bronx is somewhat neglected by the city. For instance there are so few trash receptacles! Sometimes you have to carry your trash for blocks before coming upon one. Often the ones they have are often absolutely overflowing with trash. Another time this neglect has worked in our favor. A couple of years ago we were doing some construction without a permit. The contractor got a huge dumpster (again without a permit) and parked it right in front of our house for close to a week without any problem. This would never have been the case in Manhattan.
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Old 08-21-2007, 01:34 PM
 
Location: Mott Haven
2,978 posts, read 852,826 times
Reputation: 209
I have been reading the Bronx posts for some time so I thought I would chime in. My credentials: Born in Mt Sinai (manhattan), raised in the Mott Haven section of the Bronx by 149st and Prospect Ave. Attended Catholic schooling and then left to undergrad in FL and then grad school in NJ (total of approx 7 years away, 93-2001).

I have returned to the same building that my grandparents purchased 51 years ago, where my mother was raised, and I was as well. The changes I have seen are mostly cosmetic: housing has improved dramatically from the 80s, there are few empty lots left, and more retail has entered the Bronx market (lower and middle end retail like Dunkin Donuts and Rite Aid). However, very little else has changed.

I see the same people, doing the same stupid things, except they are now 10 years older and in even worse mental, physical, and financial condition. The only new faces I see are the poorer Mexicans and Dominicans overtaking neighborhoods. My generation (late 20's early 30s), those that remain that is, are in an even worse position than their parents, as many did not go to school, do not work, have no skills, and live with their parents in various subsidized housing. 3 generations of welfare cases living in a 2 bedroom apt, with NOBODY working, and no reason to anyway.

The new arrivals to the Bronx are not the yuppies that you read about in the papers, but in fact even poorer Mexicans and Dominicans, accelerating the "Latinization" of the borough. The formerly marginal neighborhoods of Bedford Park, Norwood, Morris Park, and Pelham Parkway have no choice but to submit to the onslaught. If you have an apt for rent and the only people showing up to rent are Mexican, Dominican, or PR, what choice do you have? Furthermore, many Hispanics from the South Bronx graduate to more affluent areas of the Bronx like Throggs Neck and Pelham Bay when they can afford to, further accelerating the change.

The borough's future will be that of an Hispanic borough, and one that will house the working poor/lower class of the city. The "affordable housing" that the city touts is merely a holding cell for the poor, a nicer version of the projects. As these "affordable housing" units are in horrendous neighborhoods and are attracting those from the projects and the working poor, nobody else would want to live there. The cycle of poverty, segregation, and ghettoization is just reinforced.

I am glad to see some of the major developments in the city, like the Yankee Stadium redevelopment zone. Unfortunately, I know that those that will be shopping and patronizing these new stores and district will be the same thugs that make life miserable for the rest of us, except now they will also be able to walk across the bridge from Harlem too. The development is great and needed, however it will ultimately attract solely the thugs/low class from the surrounding community, so it does very little good for me or anyone else who believes it will salvage the neighborhood. It will likely do the reverse; It will be a meeting/drug dealing point and somewhere to hang out for the lowlives.

I live here, returned here, and reinvested here, because my family has too much history here to just walk away. However if I were an outsider with no ties to the borough, there is an overwhelming thug/lower class lifestyle that is worn as a badge of honor and infects everything, from the families, school, and the mentality, that would keep any reasonable person away. I accept that this is the way it is here, and that it is spreading throughout the rest of the borough as the new arrivals make their way in and the neighborhoods slowly change.

The overwhelming concentration of large housing projects, people on government subsidy programs, and flow of immigrants from impoverished countries solidifies the Bronx as the borough of choice for the poor and immigrants, especially Hispanics. In fact, people of color from most other boroughs, especially Brooklyn and Manhattan, are flooding into the borough, as prices are out of reach for many outside of the Bronx, further segregating the borough. If you are content with living in an "affordable" community, surrounded by the poor/working class, and all that comes with it (garbage on the streets, ignorance, higher crime rates, bad schools, unending Hispanic arrivals, drugs galore) then the Bronx is a fair choice. There will always be pockets of okay neighborhoods, but the vast majority is, and will be, a very Hispanic, and poor/working poor area.

I look forward to any and all comments. Thanks.
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Old 08-21-2007, 01:45 PM
 
Location: Mott Haven
2,978 posts, read 852,826 times
Reputation: 209
Default Response to Yodel

I too posted an ad for a 2 bedroom apt in Mott Haven for $1,250 a month. I was equally surprised at the variety of people that came to see the apt, many of whom were from Manhattan looking for a cheaper place to live. However, I found that those that were from Manhattan (white's that is) were coming moreso to check things out, and satisfy a curiousity from everything they read in the papers about the Bronx, than they were serious about renting the apt. Ultimately, I rented to a person of color from the Bronx, as those from the city were really just scouts reporting back to the troops.

It should be noted, however, that the person I rented to was equally qualified to rent, and has been a great tenant (no goverment programs). I could care less whether the person was of color or not, but ultimately I am aware that, due to the location (Mott Haven) and the conditions of the neighborhood, the only serious prospects would be a person of color. I would like to know who you ultimately rent to.
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Old 08-21-2007, 03:34 PM
 
1,299 posts, read 1,867,289 times
Reputation: 708
We rented to two guys, one white, one hispanic, no programs either. The apartment was also $1250. Almost all the responses we got from Craigslist were roomate situations. We had expected more families.

Last edited by yodel; 08-21-2007 at 04:07 PM..
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Old 08-21-2007, 04:09 PM
 
Location: Bronx, New York
1,758 posts, read 4,010,438 times
Reputation: 475
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guywithacause View Post
I too posted an ad for a 2 bedroom apt in Mott Haven for $1,250 a month. I was equally surprised at the variety of people that came to see the apt, many of whom were from Manhattan looking for a cheaper place to live. However, I found that those that were from Manhattan (white's that is) were coming moreso to check things out, and satisfy a curiousity from everything they read in the papers about the Bronx, than they were serious about renting the apt. Ultimately, I rented to a person of color from the Bronx, as those from the city were really just scouts reporting back to the troops.

It should be noted, however, that the person I rented to was equally qualified to rent, and has been a great tenant (no goverment programs). I could care less whether the person was of color or not, but ultimately I am aware that, due to the location (Mott Haven) and the conditions of the neighborhood, the only serious prospects would be a person of color. I would like to know who you ultimately rent to.
It's not exactly Mott Haven, but what do you think about the 'sprinkle' of whites getting on at 3rd Av and 138th Street (6)? I do see it!
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Old 08-21-2007, 04:23 PM
 
11,295 posts, read 14,797,082 times
Reputation: 3208
Default Speaking of Bedford Park...

2 public servants who died at the WTC on 9/11/01 were former residents of Bedford Park, Stephen Driscoll and Luke Nee, whose parents still live on the Grand Concourse just above Bedford Park. A corner on the Concourse just below Bedford Park was named for him and the article i read showed his parents (native Irish) on the Concourse by the new signs they put up. I wonder how they make out living in the area

Seems the area at one time had a large Irish census. It must have been a beautiful area back then, especially north of Bedford Park where you have those nice art deco buildings
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Old 08-21-2007, 06:06 PM
 
Location: Bronx, NY
7,780 posts, read 13,223,703 times
Reputation: 2322
Just want to point out not every Latino, Hispanic, what have you, is FOB immigrant, lazy, or a criminal. Quite a few of us were born here or have family going back here for years, and live perfectly decent, normal and productive, "American" lives.

I had to throw in that reminder, after reading some of these posts.
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Old 08-21-2007, 06:48 PM
 
11,295 posts, read 14,797,082 times
Reputation: 3208
Default It wasn't my...

intention to insinuate that the area was better because it had more caucasians(if you felt my post had alluded to that) than now. I just happened to read about those 2 public servants who were from the neighborhood.

I myself work with many blacks and latinos as clients and am grateful to them for letting me have and keep my job. so i'm not prejudiced that way.

if bedford park was a safer place i would consider living there myself
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