Bronx area - Fordham/Kingsbridge (Florida, Washington Heights: relocation, luxury, apartment)

[BXGEAR]

Originally Posted by DAS

Leaving out the word "infested" that was my point. Starting in the 1940's most people left the tenements of Harlem to buy homes in the Bronx. Most of the time at first this was the South Bronx because white families moved to the sections in the North Bronx leaving the Southern Bronx to the minorities. Even moving to a then safe clean tenement in the South Bronx was better than Harlem back in the 50's and 60's. The Bronx was a step up from Harlem.

As white families started to leave sections of the northern Bronx for the suburbs minorities started moving into those areas At first it was the home owners from the southern Bronx moving and renting out the houses they left behind. With the homeowners gone areas started going down. Homeowners demand certain services and tend to take care of their property better than renters. Not all but most. This affected the entire area even the people that lived in tenements.

Then the fires and relocations started in the Bronx. Some areas have been built back up and are continuing to build. Some northernern areas went down and are building back up.

The fight now IMO is that when an area is on the rise, some people want to move in to make a big profit this eventually forces working people and artist and others that have worked to improve an area out. The Bronx is the last frontier in this city. Where will everyone go if this occurs at anytime in the near future? There is no other boro to run to. Most people on this furum have already run to the Bronx from Manhattan, Brooklyn, and Queens. I don't know much about Staten Island someone can elaborate on that one.

I really can't imagine a rich person becoming a cop or fireman and protecting and serving this city. I can't imagine a rich person working for transit or cleaning the streets or delivering my mail. If everyone is pushed out further it won't make sense for working people to spend their hard earned money to come into the city to perform these services.

Of course it doesn't have to become this way.

Well, tell us some of your ideas. What are we to do?

[badmammajamma]

Originally Posted by clubBR

Well, tell us some of your ideas. What are we to do?

I know this has been discussed before but take a good look at the "waterfront" of the Bronx on the Sound all the way from the south up past SoundView/Classon Point past the end of Castle Hill on up to City Island. Some of this area has been developed already for years how can it be made better? Remember in most of these area's on the "coast" of the Bronx to get to them you have to navigate sketchy neighborhoods so it is a BIG undertaking.

[DAS]

I try to put the facts in my post so that maybe we can come up with ideas to force real change in this city and not continue to go in the direction that it is going. Everyone that posts whether it is to share the latest news, ask advice on different subjects, or to rant their rage and fustrations, I think cares enough about this city to post.

I know that history has left paths that we can trace back and see where mistakes were made and not repeat them. Time moves forward, technology advances, basic human nature seems to stay pretty much the same. Given those things we have enough knowledge to come up with better solutions.

So many interesting and intelligent people post on this forum. I have learned so much reading all these threads. The reason that NY is such a fascinating city is not the celebrities, or the rich tycoons, its the people, the neighborhoods, the boros. Up and coming designers used to walk the streets of the boros, all the areas, to get new ideas. Entertainers would go hang out at neighborhood clubs in all boros to get new ideas for their acts whether it was comedy, music or whatever. It was the people, the stories that have made the basis of so many movies over the years.

I may be exaggerating the issue but I feel that NY will lose all of that if more and more people are forced out. There may still be deals to be made for regular working people but it seems to be less in the other boros and more in the Bronx. The Bronx is not big enough to hold everyone. The city has to function. People post about buying in up and coming areas and reselling later and laughing all the way to the bank. That is good but most of the time when those people make that move to go to the bank, the next move is out of the city. Because if you sell in the areas that were the last to come up you will not be able to buy a similiar property in an area that came up before that. An example if you can sell something in the Bronx for 500K more than likely you cannot buy something similiar in Harlem or Washington Heights now. It would probably be much smaller, require some renovation, and is on a block you wouldn't want to live on.

Well, tell us some of your ideas. What are we to do?

From looking back at the past, I think that people should consider selling property in lower and middle income areas, if they move out of the area instead of renting the property out and moving completely away from the area. This can really negatively impact an area. No one will take care of your property the way you do. At the very least make every effert to maintain and preserve the property. However selling to others that want to stay in the area allows other people to buy in a way that provides profit for the seller and allows others to reap the benefits of home ownership.

This doesn't always work out though. Sometimes others come into an area on the rise and buy under the pretense that they want to stay in an area for a long time. Then they sell in 2-3 years for 4X the amount that they bought it for. This prevents the local residents from buying. Since the Bronx is the last frontier, the only boro left to run to, I hope that people can come up with ways to prevent this.

[Elvira Black]

If you're referring to me, I have no intention on moving out of my Bronx coop. I'm not here to flip and make a quick profit. I'm committed to living here, as I was committed to every area I've lived in before.

I did mention laughing all the way to the bank in one post, but it was in the context of an exchange with a negative poster (Roseba) who insisted that buying a coop was stupid, and living in the other boroughs was valueless. She claimed that the middle class had no chance to live decently in NYC anymore--period.

Otherwise, nice post.

[Guywithacause]

Das I undestand your theory, and I agree. Unfortunately the reality is that the vast majority of people who are selling anything want top dollar, and could care less about what happens after. Let's be realistic...if you were selling a car and someone offered you $10,000 versus the $5,000 everyone else was offering, would you care enough to find out the who/what/where/why/how of the $10,000 offer, or would you take the money and move on with your life, with both parties happy? Maybe you would, but I think we can agree that the vast majority would take the money and move on.

I also agree that renting out a property and moving out of the area does negatively impact areas, however many people use this as a source of income that proves quite lucrative in the NYC market moreso than others. Rents are high, and those that have had their homes for many years do quite well off rental income in lower income communities. It is easy to agree with the theory, however when push comes to shove, those in these low income communities can move to a place with a lower cost of living, earn substantial cash flow from their properties, and live a better quality of life. Simple economics.

[Elvira Black]

Yes, money talks, but there are now more zoning restrictions and incentives for developers to build more mixed income housing in the Bronx. This seems like a positive step.

[Guywithacause]

Agreed Elvira...most comunities going forward are in fact mixed income of some sort, although it is unclear how they define mixed income...as I believe it differs by nieghborhood.

[DAS]

Elvira says

If you're referring to me, I have no intention on moving out of my Bronx coop. I'm not here to flip and make a quick profit. I'm committed to living here, as I was committed to every area I've lived in before.

Elvira I wasn't referring to you specifically or anyone for that matter. So many posters have made that statement at one time or another. You have made it very clear in several post that you are committed to staying where you are.

Guywithacause you are correct about the realities, that is why I was just suggesting. Also IMO individuals have to think beyond just economics, of course I'm not minimizing economic concerns.

There are very pricey areas of the city that have always been very high priced, these areas are in every boro. The people in these areas seem to have a lot of money to spend and they should have areas for people with the means to live there. However there has to be some areas that can be preserved for those without that amount of money. I don't think its feasible to just depend on the city to zone housing for mixed income. It is correct that they are going to, but what they are zoning, won't be enough.

Guywithacause and Elvira you both seem to be committed to NYC in general and you both seem to definitely want to stay here. I look forward to reading more of your suggestions and ideas to improve the quality of life for all. I really hope to see more of this, ideas, because just stating what is happening, is not enough, we all read the papers, we are all living in it, so we know. I know some are living in it and have no intention of staying, they are dealing with it now and they are moving on.

Some want to stay but feel forced out and they are torn because whether you stay or go the NYC experience is like no other. You don't have to live in Manhattan to get it either.

[Guywithacause]

My idea for improving the quality of life in this city is quite simple: don't abandon these communities that Hustla, the press, and the "elite" dismiss as "wastelands." I recommend entering these communities that are still extremely affordable and staking a claim in the neighborhood, and city's future. It is only through an influx and mix of investment, new people, businesses, amenities, and infrastructure in communities like Mott Haven, Bed-Stuy, Bushwick, etc that we can make real changes that will profoundly effect the city in a short amount of time.

The same effect cannot be said for already established, vibrant, and successful neighborhoods like the Village, or Brooklyn Heights, or the Upper West Side. If you want to make a difference and improve this city...move to one of these communities (for example) and your impact on the quality of life in the city, and these neighborhoods in particular through investment, new faces, new ideas, new perspectives, is amplified 1000 times.

[Elvira Black]

A bit of empathy would help too...as I said on another thread, there seem to be many middle class who despise and resent the poor just because they are poor. If you are being pushed out of the city (or the "better areas") by the wealthy, think how the poor who are being pushed out to accommodate you must feel, and how much more limited their choices may be. I don't think this is what NYC should stand for. It used to stand for opportunities for newcomers (aka "give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to break free") as well as those of better means, to all have a shot at the American dream.