Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Mayor introduces congestion pricing in Central Business District of Manhattan, no toll booths, poll collection via video camera license plate recording, commuter tax, reduce congestion
What does everyone think about the Mayor's new plan released today for congestion pricing? Everyone driving into the Central Business District of Manhattan (all of Manhattan south of 86th st) will have to pay $8, and trucks will have to pay $21. There will be no toll booths, but rather the tolls will be collected thru the use of new video cameras which can record license plate numbers and then mail out bills to the address associated with the license plate.
If someone is already paying a toll to get into the city they will only pay up to $8. So if someone takes the GWB and pays $5 with their EZ-pass, they will only pay an additional $3, instead of a whole new charge of $8. I think this is designed to discourage drivers from Brooklyn, Queens, and Long Island the most who use the free east river bridges.
All told these charges are expected to bring in an additional $400 million a year which is supposed to be spent on updating the public transportation network (hopefully).
I for one, and I know I will get a lot of slack for this, think this is a good thing. Both London and Singapore have similar congestion pricing plans setup and they seem to work quite well. I have seen both of these systems in operation, so I know this from personal experience. Congestion charges help to deter people from driving into the city when they otherwise could take the subway, train, or bus. This will have a great impact on reducing the ammount of traffic in Manhattan and overall will reduce the environmental impact of having so many cars on the road. And hopefully the extra money raised thru this will finally be used to update the local transportation network, especially the subways, many of which are in dire need of repairs.
Just another commuter tax. "Let's screw the people who come in to the city to spend money because, hey, they don't vote here."
If I drive to the city it's because I have to. Either I'm buying things I can't carry personally or I'm visiting someone AND I'm usually bringing a carful of people with me. It's nice that people in NYC imagine I have a bus stop down the road from me, or have a train station in the cow pasture across the street, but I don't. For some of us, we don't have a choice on how we get to the city. The bus station is 3 miles from me, it take 2.5 hours to get to the Port Authority, and then I'd have to hire a cab to carry me and everyone with me to where we need to go which is either downtown or to the museums or to my relatives' homes, hire another cab to carry the purchases, and then drive us back to the Port Authority to wait around for another 2.5 hour bus ride back to my town.
Those other people I'm bringing with me? KIDS. I don't want to drag 2 or 3 kids with me all through the public transit system in the city nor pay the extra fares for them. For me, driving is ultimately more sensible, safer, and cheaper.
Contrary to popular opinion, we who live in upstate New York and are already taxed for NYC mass transit service (for which we receive less services per capita than we pay for), do not just decide to pile into our cars and drive aimlessly around Manhattan for our jollies. When they built the Thruway and the GWB we were promised just 20 years of tolls then they'd be taken away once they were paid off. They're still there and so are the tolls. Update your transit system with YOUR dollars, not mine. You don't pay for my town's road maintenance, why should I pay for yours? Oh right, I'm ALREADY paying for it in the transit surtax.
New York's taxation is confiscatory and Albany lets the city do anything it wants. In this case it's screwing everyone who doesn't live in the city.
Have you ever noticed that New York state is shaped like a toll basket funnel? If you live upstate you do.
I think that this $8 charge would only be in effect during the busy weekdays, not weekends and evenings. If it brings the city more money and reduces congestion, why not. I sympathize with upstaters, but only to a point. They could still drive in on weekends, or park their car at a metro-north station and take the train. It is more difficult on the subway and trains with kids, but New Yorkers do it too.
I think that this $8 charge would only be in effect during the busy weekdays, not weekends and evenings. If it brings the city more money and reduces congestion, why not. I sympathize with upstaters, but only to a point. They could still drive in on weekends, or park their car at a metro-north station and take the train. It is more difficult on the subway and trains with kids, but New Yorkers do it too.
There are times I have to travel into the city on busy weekdays because that's when businesses are open.
That money is mine, not the city's.
Your sympathy is not needed nor desired. Manhattan is as much part of New York as my little chunk of it out in the exurbs and I see no reason I should be charged extra for the privilege of traveling into a specific part of it. That is not equality before the law. If you live in the zone, you're exempt from the charge, if you don't live there, you get charged. That is, in effect, the state creating and supporting a system of geographic privilege. People in the City of New York should be offended by this proposal as anyone else.
Quote:
It is more difficult on the subway and trains with kids, but New Yorkers do it too.
I am just as much of a New Yorker as anyone from Canton to Buffalo to Montauk. This is something I fear that those who live in the city quickly forget. I keep thinking of the old New Yorker poster showing the, "New Yorker's" view of the world. We are treated, as usual, like second class citizens by our dear fellow Empire Staters who think we serve at their pleasure as we're inbred, rural hayseeds who have no idea what real living is like. The attitude, reinforced by this proposal, is, "If we have to tolerate them, we may as well charge them for it."
I think it is a good idea. The measure targets a problematic traffic area. There really is no valid reason for people to drive in to that part city. For one it is a bad idea, it also creates unnecessary waste, traffic, pollution, etc. It is only a relatively small group people who don't like public transportation or cabs for whatever reason. Most people will benefit from the measure.
I'm all for it. But I have a feeling it won't pass. All it takes is a small group of people with big money and big influence for a measure like this not to pass.
Plus if you really are that hell bent on driving leave your car somewhere above the regulation. Shop all you want take a cab with your family (you can split it with someone else and it will be a pretty cheap cab ride) back to your car. And you can drive back to wherever you came from. I think whoever is against the measure is either being selfish or narrow-minded. In any case, I don't think it will be pass, but it is a nice bit of progressive thinking.
I think some pretty powerful groups are actually behind the plan. I think the chamber of commerce and some other business groups are backing it.
The most voiciferous critics of the plan are going to be from Queens and to a lesser degree Brooklyn, as this is where most of the traffic in Manhattan is coming from. Remember the study that came out a couple months ago that showed that people from the city, rather than NJ/CT are who constitute the majority of people driving around Manhattan during the day.
There really is no valid reason for people to drive in to that part city.
I disagree (obviously )
I need to go to Mott Street to pick-up 20 lbs of Oolong from TenRen. Then I need to go 4 blocks and pick-up 12 woks and 56 packages of utensils. After that I want to go to Murray Hill or Flatiron to see my relatives.
What do I do?
My dog is sick. He needs chemo at the Animal Medical Center. I'm going to take him into the city on a BUS? Then carry all 60 lbs of him on the subway?
My grandmother is 94. She wants to go to the orchid show down near World Trade. I'm going to bring her in on a 2.5 hour bus ride and then the subway?
My cousins invite me to a dinner party in Murray Hill. I'm staying past 11pm. Sorry, no buses back home at that hour.
I want to go shopping and see the Christmas sights with my family. I've got 3 kids under age 10 and my daughter gets sick on the bus. She needs to sit in the front seat. I'm going to drag them to the bus? The subway?
I'm already paying a ridiculous 18% parking tax to park in a garage, paying $5.00 to gain access to Manhattan, and paying commuter tax. Now the City of New York wants MORE money from me for the, "privilege," of simply driving somewhere?
Dude get off your high horse. Your describing a very particular situation that most people don't have to deal with. Just because the measure is an inconvienence to you does not make it a bad measure. Get over yourself.
If you really need to drive so much pay the $8, if your going with someone close to you, you can even split it with them.
All the public transportation is there for a reason. Manhattan is not LA, it was not designed with all that car traffic in mind. Even the two major highways in Manhattan (FDR, and west side highway) are a joke, they can barely handle the current amount of traffic.
Last edited by NooYowkur81; 04-22-2007 at 11:03 PM..
Dude get off your high horse. Your describing a very particular situation that most people don't have to deal with. Just because the measure is an inconvienence to you does not make it a bad measure. Get over yourself.
If you really need to drive so much pay the $8, if your going with someone close to you, you can even split it with them.
PRECISELY the attitude we've come to expect from those who live in the city. When you say, "most people," you mean most people in the city. It's not just an inconvenience, it's money out of my pocket because I don't live there. It may not be bad for you, but it is bad for me.
"Get over," myself? As if my opposition is less valid than yours? There is a state (and a country) actually connected to the City of New York and it is not for you to tell me to pay extra money and, "get over it." I don't tell you how to spend your taxes, don't tell me how to spend mine. It's MY money to begin with, not yours just as your tax dollars are yours, not mine. Feel free to donate money to the City of New York. They do take donations and welcome them with open arms. If you want to pay more of your income to government, be my guest, but don't assume to tell me the same.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
)
