What's the deal with Staten Island? (New York, Scarsdale: felony, townhouses, neighborhood)

[MattSiggs]

You know what, after this post, I'm done. There's only so many ways I can say something to you before the effort becomes fruitless. You are the most frustrating person to argue with because you don't acknowledge your faults or even realize the validity of someone else's claim.

I did quote a source for the CUNY based system. You ignored it. I mentioned US News. I'll provide a link for you.

http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandre...as_n_brief.php

There you go. There's your source. CUNYs aren't bad schools, no matter what you want to think. They can still compete with an average university.

As for you referencing CSI as a two-year community college, I'll provide a quote and link from their website.

The College of Staten Island (CSI) is a senior college of The City University of New York (CUNY). CSI offers a broad range of academic programs in the liberal arts and sciences, and the professions that lead to associate's, bachelor's, and master's degrees. Select doctoral programs are also available on campus in collaboration with The CUNY Graduate Center. From undergraduate research to working on doctoral theses, students at the College of Staten Island are provided with the tools and opportunities they need to make positive contributions to society.

http://www.csi.cuny.edu/academicsresearch/index.html

If that doesn't settle the argument for you, I don't know what will. It is not a community college. It says right on the site that it's a senior level college. I don't know how much more clear I can make it. In fact, it doesn't even mention a two-year community college program. It has a doctoral program for crying out loud.

What made me so special was that I actually challenged myself, went to Tech, and now I'm currently in a demanding Honors program. You were king of the normies because you never rose above the normal track at all these places, hence your bad experience with education.

I did acknowledge the drug problem in my very first post. I know a lot of people that smoke, but I also know a lot of people that don't.

However, since I want to prove you wrong so badly, I took the effort of looking up some of the statistics. While SI has a higher rate than all the other boroughs, using your logic, we can't compare them.

SI's alcohol use is at 46%. The national average is 43%. 3% is not a huge difference at all. Although drug use is higher when compared to the other boroughs(They conveniently didn't list the other boroughs' statistics, leading me to believe that the other boroughs were only 3-4% below SI, and not statistically significant), if you compare it to the US, you'll notice that SI is statistically below average. 23% smoke, 20% use marijuana, and 4% use cocaine on Staten Island. This is compared to 38% that smoke marijuana throughout the country, and 8% that do cocaine. So you have nearly half the national average in both areas. http://www.nyc.gov/html/doh/download...7subsAbuse.pdf

It's going to be fun to see you spin these around, but I'm not going to hear anymore of it. I'll admit Staten Island has higher drug use than the other boroughs, but I'm still not convinced that it's a below average place to live, when it's cleaner than the rest of the US. The high drug usage isn't as high as you make it seem.

I don't know what schools you went to in Jersey and Florida, but I'm sure I could find other high schools in both places where kids cut class and curse out their teachers. Again, don't use anecdotes to back up your claims. They don't work.

I'm saying they'll vote for who they want to vote for. It may not be smart, but you can't tell them who to vote for. They feel safe with the Republicans, so who gives a hoot? It's not on any Republican agenda to privatize the city workers, so what's their concern?

I'm not saying it's a good place because of its growth. I said that something has to be alluring about it because it is growing. That's two very different statements, and the latter you twisted into the former to justify your claim.

I know you have an intended audience, and you want to convince them that Staten Island is sub-par. We all get it. My intention is to show people that there is another side to Staten Island, one that you conveniently neglect to push your agenda. To you, it's below-average. To me, it's an average place to raise a family.

It's clear from your posts that you have too much self-worth. You act like you're exposing "dirty details" of Staten Island that everyone was aware of for the most part, and you exaggerated these claims to make the island seem much worse than it is. You call yourself the Bill Cosby of the island, sending a message of warning. You even go as far as saying you're a powerful voice against the island and that many people read your posts. You're neglecting that the posts of others calling you out on your claims follow right after yours, so whatever agenda you have is nulled by their testimonies.

So, farewell. As someone said before, you're just a verbose windbag. You're the guy in the college class that raises his hand and talks for ten minutes, thinking he's enlightening the whole room with his raised intelligence, when everyone else is groaning at the nonsense he's sputtering.

I do hope you go to Rutgers, and realize that you don't know as much as you think you do. I hope a professor really hands you a rude awakening one day. Good luck.

[nyc0127]

What makes you believe you even had an argument to start? Because you ''like'' yourself? You don't need to continue writing on here. If you felt it was meaningless, why did you post this message? This argument is fruitless as it is. The topic of subject I brought up wasn't about CUNY. It wasn't about what college you college you can or can't afford.
This topic is about why or why Staten Island is a bad place to raise a family. I don't belittle individuals. I have class. I go deeper than that. I go into the societal structure.

It's too late to provide a link for it. That argument is over (and irrelevant). My resources for demographics are from the U.S. Census. That isn't common knowledge? The drug usage and foreclosure statistics came from articles in reputable newspapers. Just like yourself, I didn't post the link on here. People would have to do the ''dirty work'' themselves as if they got it in them. Others on here actually posted maps and articles in reference to the foreclosure statistics.

Let's go right back to the irrelevance you seem to be interested in continuing though. I didn't refer to CSI as a two-year community college. I understand the technicality of CUNY being a university. You twisted my words by saying I said it was a two year school. Where did I say it was a ''two year'' school? Why did you assume that two years meant a community college? That would be more of a junior college. Community college can be as much of a saying as it is a technicality. It's typically a cheap option that allows you to stay close to home.

That is why I said it was the elite of ''community colleges.'' If it makes you feel better, I could be more blunt. It's one of the best options availible for someone who is reluctant to paying a lot of money to go to a ''real'' university. Or, it's a not so hot school compared to real universities. The school you go to is more of a bargain than it is ''luxurious.'' If I was wrong, why isn't it common for kids from California to rent out a dorm and attend CSI? When you integrate into the real world, you'll know exactly what I'm talking about. If I don't accelerate passed the ''community college'' I attend now, I will too.

The world is big enough for people from below average or mediocre schools to make decent money. They always have to work harder and prove themselves better. They aren't on the pedestal that students from NYU or Rutgers are.

How did you challenge yourself? Sure, you went to the Tech. I give you much respect for that because few can handle that. But why aren't you at an NYU, Rutgers or Villanova? It's because it's cheap and local. What pressure do you have if you don't succeed? It's like you got nothing to close. If you screwed up for one or two years at NYU or Drexel, you may be paying them back for a decade.

The real world will know that you settled. I'm not saying you go to an embarrassing school. I'm saying the school you attend isn't that reputable. It's a city-based program ''for crying out loud.'' If you disagree, that's fine. The argument is over on that impenitent subject. I never considered CSI a ''traditional'' community college though. Don't twist my words or take everything so literally.

You sound like you're so confident because you're in the honors program. What is CSI though? You still are a student of the school. Wouldn't you being apart of the ''elite'' of a below average university, indicating you're the ''king of the normies?'' If you were so apart of the ''educationally elite'' too, I'm sure you could have came up with a more professional insult attempt than that. You rank incredibly at that school. Where would you rank at NYU? Wouldn't there be more pressure on you?

Believe me, you have a load of potential. Both of us are likely to turn out successful. It's likely that both of us will get overshadowed by the elite though. If we make it, we'll have to work harder.

You are trying to invalidate my conclusion by emphasizing alcohol. Isn't it very obvious how that was so minimal in my argument? The drug-usage is what I focused on most.

How reputable is the resource you are providing to us if it lacks comparison to he rest of the city's boroughs? Why haven't you comprehended that Staten Island is a suburb yet? I've posted several times to compare it to other affluent suburbs. If you did, you'd know how below par Staten Island is. Why don't you provide us statistics of drug usage in Staten Island versus the rest of the metropolitan area?

Why do you believe they didn't list it is because it's statistically insignificant? That isn't factual. That is you playing favoritism with Staten Island because you live there. Where are the statistics for the south shore? If you noticed, I've mainly emphasized the linking of the south shore to it's high drug-usage. That problem isn't as elevated throughout the rest of the island. Neither are foreclosures or people milking out the city's civil-service jobs.

Where are your resources for the national average of marijuana usage? Are you going to post your resources late again? Why would you even trust these statistics? Do you believe ''drug users'' are so open and warm? The Census and the government's resources of acquiring statistics throughout the nation is inadequate. Many people on here acknowledge the culture of high drug-usage on Staten Island. The intended crowd on here is middle-class people in the New York area who want to live in a decent place. The rest of America is not involved in this discussion.

I say Staten Island has lower standards than the New York City area. I never said New York City doesn't have higher standards than the rest of the country. They do. They just have a corrupted system that supports a system of mediated bigotry. New York City is educated, wealthy and safe. What seems average to NYC, is below average to Staten Island. What seems good to much of the U.S. is only average to New York.

Your facts lack merit and resource. The resources you provide lack key facts. If you believe it's ''cleaner'' than the rest of the United States, you are too naive. Hypothetically speaking, even if you were right about the ''drug-usage'', is non-drug usage the only reason you need to believe a place is a reputable place to live?

I had friends who had similar problems at their public schools. How much control can a teacher have over such a populated class with terrible resources? I witnessed this at Tottenville High School. How many suburban areas in New Jersey or Florida splurge a population of near 100 thousand's public school students into one schools. The south shore does it and they're public-school students suffer tremendously.

That is a big reason why they lack self-discipline and part of the reason why they rely on drugs to compensate for being neglected. This is why so much of the south shore's youth lacks individualism, independence or real goals. This takes down their society. Why would any uninvolved family want to bring their family's to such a mess?

I'm not telling them to vote for anyone. It would be nice to know that the people I live around people can protect themselves though. Why would anyone want to live in a society where people can't take care of themselves or interests? They make themselves vulnerable. How does it represent class if some of the population feels committed to voting Republican because they're a white suburbanite? Why would you want to live around people who lack class? Even worse, they're willing to commonly express this view without anyone telling them that isn't right. Why would you want to live in a place that permits outward racism?

I know it's not on the Republicans agenda to privatize the sanitation department. It's more likely they'd be interested in doing it in the future than Democrats though. It's more likely that they won't fight for their rights. On a national prospective, they'd seem more likely to lose social security if they supported Republicans.

If so many can't take out a mortgage that is affordable, how could they properly manage a 401K? Republicans also don't represent the liberal views most of them and their region of the country share. It's like a lose-lose situation for them. I'd hate to not encourage people to vote, but for these people, it might just be in their best interest to stay home next November.

The alluring aspect of it is it's space. Any piece of land in the New York metro area is desirable. I'm surprised more people don't camp out in the swamps of the meadowlands. Look in between Tottenville and Bloomingdale in Staten Island. This means more townhouses/condo's will be built.

Immigrants and lower-middle class Americans typically have lower standards than middle-class Americans. It's not because they're ''bad people.'' It's because they have less money and less options. If the working-class considers Staten Island to be more desirable than middle-class people, wouldn't it indicate that it's a lower-middle class place?

I respect that you believe it's an average place to raise a family. You don't provide as convincing or as many reasons as I do though. Most of your reasons you've described about Staten Island being an average place to raise a family is a unambiguous disagreement to why I believe it's below average. You don't explain because your base is bias and less factual.

Self-worth? These posts aren't about my ego. The reason why I'm exposing the dirty details of this island is because others don't understand it. Are the ''problems'' you've claimed they're already aware of are the same ''problems'' you've denied existed? They may know it, but it doesn't mean they were able to put the puzzle together. People may know that there is high drug-usage and high foreclosure rates, but they don't completely understand why people believe the reputation is below average.

The Bill Cosby comparison was a joke. I'm saying that I am able to provide a reality for what Staten Island is all about. I didn't say I was powerful. I said I had the ''potential'' to be. I doubt I would become that. If what I've said was more unknown, than maybe I could. I wouldn't want to be that though.

I simply want people to acknowledge why Staten Island is a below average place to live. I don't want Staten Island to be a bad place to live. It would suck to look down on the place I grew up for the rest of my life. Staten Island needs to acknowledge it's faults in order to improve. Some others who have posted on here and I don't believe that it's headed in that direction though.

With the facts I've provided though, many people on here have come to the conclusion that Staten Island is lower-middle class. One went as far to say the it's the place for the working-class whites in the NY area. Another actually prided the fact that Staten Island represented all of what I described.

He believed it was good because it had flavor. He believed that the culture of outward racism, non-affluence and non-assimilation was the reason why this culture still exists. If this was true, he should be happy I've encouraged people to not want anything to do with Staten Island. If they believed me, there society wouldn't diminish so quickly.

Surely for him, Staten Island may fit his awkward criteria. However, it doesn't fit most educated middle-class residents of the New York City metro area who plan on raising a family.

Why exactly would that diminish my agenda? What convinces you that who ever has opposed me is right? They've stated their disagreement. They haven't influenced the feeling of this board though. More people on this board still believe Staten Island is a place with a declining reputation and several problems. Many have had little regard for the south shore. The goal was to come to a common understanding. If you read my previous posts more carefully, you'd notice that is true.

The common understanding we have come to is obvious. People have more negative to say about Staten Island than positive. For the people who do respect the infrastructure are completely satisfied with a neutral average scent. Most places advocators don't enjoy settling for mediocrity People have come to a common understanding the Staten Island is a lower-middle class place to live with high drug-usage, economic problems and outward racism. That doesn't sound like a below average place to live? If that is what you consider average, I recommend you get higher standards (or less bias ones).

You seem to feel belittled. You feel the psychological need to try to empower me. All because I said you couldn't afford a better college? I actually don't speak out in classes like that. I observe more than I act. I know when it's time to speak and when it isn't. I respect other peoples views. No professor will ever give me a ''rude awakening.''

I'd love it if a professor gave me one though. Believe it or not, most professors don't have enough fire in them to care for a student. They may consider a student like me a rude awakening. If I chose to speak out, I might just stand in the way of their daily routine. It would be nice to know I'm not the only one who cares. Most go through the motions just like the students. Finding someone like me within students is twice as hard with professors considering so many are old and miserable.

In college, you are a statistic. You are a dollar sign. They should call me by my ID number, not Tom. You think they care enough? If a Rutgers professor wanted rude awakening, they could go outside of their New Jersey residency and view their destroyed environment. It looks like the end of days in this state.

[mead]

Holy cr@p I can't believe this post has gone one for as long as it did. I just read all of the posts since when I last posted and now I feel like I'll never be able to get those precious minutes of my life back.

I do give credit for Jrock for this remark:

Yeah theres guido's on staten island, whoopdi do. At least the girls are hot.

I'll def have to give you some points for that.

[nyc0127]

Why you are attacking my ego again? Look at how much he wrote. He wrote 17 paragraphs. Who else has come that close to me? I don't see you criticizing him.

I'll give you points for pointing that out lol I won't give them credit for being ''guido's'' though, because they aren't. They'd take pride in being low class. I won't give loser drugged out Staten Islanders that respect. Doing drugs, having spikey hair, orange skin or northface bubble jackets never came from Italy. They'd be lucky if people thought they were straight lol The girl's are hot there. You may think a lot of crap comes out of my mouth. You got no idea how much is going in theirs though.

[complexsimplicity]

[quote=mead;2373467]

Holy cr@p I can't believe this post has gone one for as long as it did. I just read all of the posts since when I last posted and now I feel like I'll never be able to get those precious minutes of my life back.

Lol, this thread is too hiliarious! I just so happened to stumble across this thread and browsed through it out of curiousity. I have to go on record and say that this should go in the Guiness Book of Records for the longest posts ever! Never have I seen post this long on a forum.


PS: NYC0127, please don't reply to me with a 2,000 word thesis your fingers should be hurting by now from all the typing you've done thus far. (and no I didn't bother to check my grammer as I see this has been an issue )

[seamus21514]

I'm 13, and I live in the North Shore of Staten Island. nyc127836198367894t6578z couldn't be more wrong.

Yes, I personally want to get off this island, but there are some sections of it that are really nice, like the North Shore. Anywhere south of the Staten Island Expressway isn't worth visiting, save for Historic Richmond Town and the Conference House. If you are still looking at Staten Island, then I would suggest Grymes Hill or Saint George.

Saint George is currently the most built up part of Staten Island, which is a little gritty, but it's being gentrified, which is a good and bad thing, seeing as it's very colorful currently. The North Shore is generally more liberal, with larger minority populations, which if you think about it, shouldn't matter at all.

Education isn't the best, I went through Catholic school, until I decided to go out of borough for school in sixth grade, which was a much better choice. Sending your kids to high school in Manhattan is a must.

About the crime...bull****. In 2007, SI, with a population of roughly 475,000 people, had about 9 murders, which is incredibly good, comparing to cities of similar sizes, like New Orleans.

I personally do not like Staten Island, because of the Brooklyn transplants, who have ruined the "vibe" of the Island. My parents are true natives... they were both here before the building of the Verrazano. Previously, Staten Island had a bit of a quirky, semi-rural New England feel, but that has been lost. Nowadays, I would consider the majority of Staten Island to be an extension of Bay Ridge.

[nyc0127]

I'm surprised someone woke up this message board. I'm assuming that long screen name you posted was supposed to be mine. I respect that you are well-spoken and intelligent for someone your age.

Believe it or not, our opinions aren't that far apart. We both are disgusted with the south shore (I still don't understand how someone claimed the south shore was affluent on here). We both agree that the north-shore is semi-urban. We both don't think St. George, Westerleigh, Grimes Hill, Dongan Hills and New Dorp are bad places to live. Within Staten Island, they're good. Within the rest of the metro area, they're average.

Just because those places are acceptable, doesn't mean the whole island is. My philosophy is that it's like people waiting for a ferry in the rain. Some have umbrellas or will find a way not to get wet. However, when the ferry arrives, all the benches will be wet. Neighborhoods are not townships or cities. These neighborhoods aren't large enough to isolate. They share the same stores complexes, schools, malls, bowling alleys and other social areas with the trash on the island.

I agree that Brooklyn's dumped cargo has left a bad linger on the island. People from Brooklyn didn't have effect or populate the north-shore or the middle of the island like they did the south shore or places that border it. That is why they have a better backbone and identity.

Here is the part that confuses me. If Staten Island has had negative outcome through people from outside transplants, why would you want to risk that again? Even though Staten Island may not seem so hot compared to the area, they have enough people to supply their own needs. They have enough money and resources too.

Why would you want to promote the idea of others moving to the north shore? It would denaturalize these neighborhoods. Any individualism that has survived through the decades would evaporate.

Regardless, Staten Island's continuing growth is mostly due to immigration and lower-middle class re-locaters. People from better suburbs don't want to move into the best parts of semi-urban areas. People in Manalapan wouldn't move to a good area within Elizabeth. The only people who are willing to move to Staten Island are the working-class in other boroughs who can't afford their place. What is lower-middle class for the rest of the city, is middle class in Staten Island.

As you noted, the level of ''diversity'' shouldn't matter. Diversity helps all people though. The word ''minority'' doesn't mean diversity though. Diversity prevents people having stereotypes about a group, when so many of their friends represent something different. An intelligent American would either promote the idea or feel neutral (not care). In contrast, many people on the south shore believe that because their place is still mostly white, American-born and Christian, it means the structure of the neighborhood is better and preserved. Who are they really kidding though?

You shouldn't say the word ''minority.'' If you go along with a system that bases differences on physical appearance, than you are no less ignorant than the New York media that antagonizes it. The word minority means someone who isn't in majority. That could mean economically, religiously and other ways besides racially or ethnically.

Immigrants have different situations (i.e. economically, fertility rates) than lower-class blacks. Considering a group such as Puerto Ricans or a second or third generation American a ''minority'' would be obsolete. Groups like Puerto Ricans that get squirmed into the generalization of that term such, which represent nothing of what those groups have to endure.

Why would anyone want to live in a place that has below average education. Why would they want to come to a place that is so unfairly funded? Moving to Staten Island is like eating drinking out of a bottle of soda from someone you knew was sick. It's a stupid risk.

Of course cities like New Orleans are going to be worse. They're horrible and poor. People in the NY area are frightened of Newark. Compared to a city like New Orleans though, is it really that bad? New York City and it's metro area are safe and wealthy.

The level of criminal activity isn't always determined by homicides. Homicides just are the most attention grabbing. There are a lot more people doing drugs than their are people getting killed. The crime-index may not seem high compared to the city (although the drug-usage rate is). Both are considered high to the metro area's suburbs. What is below-average criminally in New York is average to America. Because the NYC area is safe, Staten Island would probably rank similarly criminally to what ever the United States is. Comparing it to New Orleans would be irrelevant.

Drug-usage is a much more crippling factor to a society. The south shore's parents have never conquered this problem. Staten Island has many people who are miserable, hostile, outspokenly racist and economically troubled. If you had all this knowledge about Staten Island, why would anyone want to get introduced to such a nuisance?

Lastly, don't disrespect Bay Ridge by associating Staten Island with it. The majority of Staten Island is a like a racist and lower-middle class version of Bayonne. The north shore has the immigration and diversity that the Bay Ridge has, but not the affluence or education level.

Bay Ridge is one of the few places that may represent the streamline wealth of Brooklyn because of it's isolation and expense. The north shore lacks that streamline success. It's much more affordable. The only place that is streamline on Staten Island is the south shore. It's a streamline of dog crap though.

Staten Island has potential. They aren't pushing in a good direction though. Staten Island should fix their own problems before promoting the idea of newcomers to get involved. Newcomers shouldn't and usually choose not to get involved because of Staten Island's below-average infrastructure. This is a headache not worth enduring.

[nyc0127]

I'm sure I make Staten Island sound much worse than what it actually is. This place needs to come to a reality. They need to acknowledge the drug usage. They need to confront there problems. People put these issues in the backburner.

I'm from Staten Island. I don't want to look at it like this. I'd be a worse person if I just put a pretend smile on my face though. I don't want anyone to take me for being like Mitt Romney with attack ads.

People on here need to get past the issue of out of island residents inquiring it. People here need to focus on the infrastructure of Staten Island. People should talk about solutions to problems. We need to get past step one which is acknowledging these problems. All of you want to dodge these problems and put a plastic smile on your face. If that happens, you'll be the one dodging off the island.

[NYLifes2shrt]

Originally Posted by seamus21514

I'm 13, and I live in the North Shore of Staten Island. nyc127836198367894t6578z couldn't be more wrong.

Yes, I personally want to get off this island, but there are some sections of it that are really nice, like the North Shore. Anywhere south of the Staten Island Expressway isn't worth visiting, save for Historic Richmond Town and the Conference House. If you are still looking at Staten Island, then I would suggest Grymes Hill or Saint George.

Saint George is currently the most built up part of Staten Island, which is a little gritty, but it's being gentrified, which is a good and bad thing, seeing as it's very colorful currently. The North Shore is generally more liberal, with larger minority populations, which if you think about it, shouldn't matter at all.

Education isn't the best, I went through Catholic school, until I decided to go out of borough for school in sixth grade, which was a much better choice. Sending your kids to high school in Manhattan is a must.

About the crime...bull****. In 2007, SI, with a population of roughly 475,000 people, had about 9 murders, which is incredibly good, comparing to cities of similar sizes, like New Orleans.

I personally do not like Staten Island, because of the Brooklyn transplants, who have ruined the "vibe" of the Island. My parents are true natives... they were both here before the building of the Verrazano. Previously, Staten Island had a bit of a quirky, semi-rural New England feel, but that has been lost. Nowadays, I would consider the majority of Staten Island to be an extension of Bay Ridge.

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!! I moved from Sausalito, CA, had an apt in the city and with a dog and 2 cars I decided to move to SI and bought a house. It is not surprise to me that "you" SI's don't want outsiders. Although, where I live has more transplants...the rest if SI folks are very limited in terms of the rest of the US. YOU don't like outsiders. It's almost like one of those southern cities that want to "keep" their culture "white". There seems to be this attitude that you are as "good" as the city folks, but mostly SI don't have the education, class and the worldyness of many suburbs of a major city.

I am glad I moved to SI...my neighborhood has more transplants from other parts of the US and the city...thank god, but when I visit other parts of SI I cringe...it's like a bad seen from the movie Goodfellas. SI will change, but change will come from pple outsiders.

[NYLifes2shrt]

Originally Posted by info123

Geez, I can't believe what kind of wrong infomation some people here are giving to you.

I moved to SI from Queens 7 years ago, and am glad for the decision I made.

Yes, SI is less convenient than other Boroughs, since there is no direct connected subway system there. However, during rush hours, there are tons of express buses running to and from different locations of downtown/midtown Manhattan. Theose buses use HOV lane and take less than half hour to reach downtown Mahhattan from the VZ bridge. My house is about 10 minutes driving from the VZ bridge, and it only takes about 45 minutes door to door to my work place by Wall Street.

Most express buses run between 630AM-9:00AM, 3:30PM-7:00PM, and cover majority areas of SI and Manhattan. After rush hours, there are only few express running, but some run even after mid-night. Like X1, it still runs once every hour after midnight. the ferry and the connection local buses over the SI side also run day and night at different intervals. Of course, the Express Bus is more expensive, $5 each way. The ferry is free but it's much slower and more crowded in general.

When driving into the island, you have to pay tolls for any bridge you pick. VZ bridge charge the most expensive toll in the city, $9 per car. This also make the island more isolated for both good and bad . But residents there get deep discount for tolls. For example, for VZ, we pay only $5 using ezpass or $1.50 using car pool ticket.

The island is much more spread out and quiter than Queens and Brooklyn, and is more like NJ. House price there is relatively cheaper as well. It's definitely a better place to raise a family. That's why there are more and more people move there from those two boroughs within recent years. Go there to take a look yourself and you can compare them youself.

Just stay away from the areas closed to the ferry. You don't want to move there. South Shore is less crowded, but the commute is longer.

I moved near the ferry (location, location) I lived on Gold St. in the city and loved the walks with my dog on seaport, but couldn't stand that I had to park 2 cars, walk my dog 4 to 5 times a day, no pool in the summer and on and on. I bought a house on the hills...not park hill and I have not regreted it. My home has a view of the city from every floor of my house! Have you noticed that there is a home depot right in middle of park hill? Even park hill is changing. Pple are buying up those big victorian homes and remodeling them. The area is changing. Talk to the business owners near bay st.

I love that I can park my car at the ferry and still have a walk at seaport couple of hours a day. I would not have bought a house anywhere else on SI. The whold point of my move from CA was to be in the city...so I got the next best thing being on SI. It was not about the money but my lifestyle. The nice thing about my block is there are many transplants from the city and other parts of the US that saw the same value as I did!

BTW, most my nieghbors kids to go private schools even through high school.