What's the deal with Staten Island? (New York, Levittown: lower-class, rent, crime rate)

[Abbydo]

Trust me, you don't want to live on Staten Island unless you want your kids to grow up as gavone types who sound stupid the minute they open their mouths. Library is pronounced liberry, talk is tawk and words beginning in "s" are now beginning with the "sh" sound so that the word street sounds like shtreet. The people are classless and are always confrontation ready. Staten Island was once a nice place to live years ago when there were plenty of open spaces with normal people living there, but as soon as the Verrazano bridge was built that all changed. The island was then flooded with Brooklynites who brought their culture with them. All the females look cheap with their fake nails, fake tan and gum snapping habit. And even the guys get their nails done, eyebrows waxed and go to the tanning salon. They think they look good with their gold chains and wife beater tee shirts but no one from the rest of the world takes these people seriously. If you raise your kids there, they will inevitably become handicapped with this culture. No one appears intelligent. The people who are actually intelligent, move because they don't want to be associated with Staten Island. Do yourself a favor. Don't move to Staten Island.

[nyc0127]

quote=brombebj;652682]Staten Island seems to have homes at attractive prices, and I was thinking of looking there. I work in Times Square, and my wife and I have a baby on the way. We are looking all over the tri-state areas at affordable options that have good schools, easy commutes, parks for both moms and babies as well as for our dog. Staten Island was recommended as an option, but before I go running in that direction, are there any thoughts out there on the subject?[/quote]

To prevent any confusing, I'm not directing this message to you, but to everyone who has posted on this thread. I'll tell you straight up what Staten Island is really all about though. All of us know you can't get a feel for things in a place, unless you've resided there. I have resided in a few different places, including Staten Island. By the end of this thread, you'll know I'm far from bias (I was born and raised there).

There is a reason why Staten Island is cheap. It's undereducated, the kid's have a high drug-usage rate and the rate of sucess is low. Now there are two Staten Islander's who'd have two different responses to that. There are ones who do have education, who simply know that's societally true. Than there are the ones who are that, who'd act like they were appauled.

The only way to understand Staten Island, is if you understand it's history since 1960. During this era, white people (particularly Catholics), were leaving to go everywhere. Primarily, Long Island, upstate (Westchester/Rockland), Staten Island, a little bit to Florida, some to Jersey (although it doesn't mean much to NJ) and other places. Staten Island was the reject land. The city began to construct the dump in the 40's, paving the way for it's new trashy people.

One of the funniest post's on here I heard was the central and south shore being affluent. The central (New Dorp, Bay Terrace, ect.), I agree with. The North shore has many apartments, poverty, immigration and varieties of incomes. The south shore is a paradox though. It's isolated. If you're there, it's embarrassing how it is.

I lived there, I'd know. Why would I say that though? Look up statistics. Approximately near one/sixth of the population is civil service oriented. For males, we all know that's higher. It's in between 25-30%. I'm not saying that isn't an honorable way to live your life, but when that many people do it, it's not healthy. The definition of civil service, is working class. The definition of working class is lower-middle class.

In America, there is no question that white men are on a pedistal. They're reputation is educated, wealthy and well-spoken. In Staten Island, it's everything but. The most common profession within civil service is the police department (Fire department, Sanitation, others too). There are 37,000 cops in NYC. People believe it's so large, because NYC is so populated. Proportionally speaking, 37,000 is still more than it's respective necessity compared to the nation. People don't realize it, but New York City is a very safe city. Philadelphia on the other hand, has 10,000, and needs at least five thousand more.

A normal human-being to police ratio would command about 25,000 police officers. NYC could probably even survive on less if they had to. Bloomberg is cutting down on this though though. He's reduced the starting salary by one-third. So what are the other 12,000 cops? Paper pushers? Evidence transporters? People who run the ''gun range'', that could have been contracted out to an entrepreneur. A guard that sits in front of one cell? Why can't secretaries, corrections, security guards or other civilians do these jobs? Police officers make about 70,000 after 20 years.

he thing is, if these people appreciated and were quiet I'd respect them. But they're greedy. How many cops or fire-man have ''three quarters'' for something as dumb as a bad back or ''9/11 anxiety''? It's like they want to wash themselves of headaches. These people are kind of like children with no potential, who try to get over.

Is it normal for one in every fifteen grown men to be a cop? Normally, it's like one of every fifty. That means two out of three cops you see on the south shore should have never held a gun in their life. They never had the mentality or inspiration to be one. The only reason why they became a cop was because of their laziness. It has good benefits, a pension (although a 401K seems better) and at the time a decent salary with no education requirements. It was a way to live at minimum a mediocre life, without entering the real world.

This didn't really kick in until the 70's though. Most people before they got to Staten Island were blue-collared (construction workers) or just didn't make a whole lot of money. People in North Jersey who moved out to Monmouth county had educational inspiration. People in Long Island had the same thing. The elite of society didn't want to work with their hands.

Most of America does retails, sales, banking and stuff related to that. Retail is the most common profession in Staten Island (second on south shore). It's simple supply and demand. In the sanitation department, do you deserve to make 70K a year for making bunny ears with garbage bags? No. That should be waste-management. That company would reduce the salary (not waste tax-money) and make the retirement age 55. Look at the MTA. They did it. They're actually utilized. Driving a bus is work. The subways may not be, but you're gonna die earlier from the unhealthy environment.

An immigrant who has 4 kids needs that job a lot more than someone who has one or two kids. To me, someone on Staten Island who joins Sanitation is like a guy with a 40 year old guy with a ''bad back'' who can walk, but used a store's wheel chair over an old lady who can't even walk. Or, a lower-middle class person drinking all the homeless people's soup in a soup kitchen. I may sound mean, but I'm right.

You have no human-skills if you picking up trash. They only work 4 hours a day. They get an hour lunch. The other three hours are spent in the house (maybe washing the truck, but usually doing nothing). 35 dollars an hour for doing nothing? If this is what you do for a living when you had potential, it makes you feel border-line retard. They'd skapegoat by saying ''I'm a father and a husband'', even though that's irrelevant to the work-force.

It's almost like the south with the military (they are utilized though and have more pride for their stature - i.e. Iraq). Remember though, this is New York City. The place when you can make god knows how much money. You need to be educated to be affluent. You're telling me an area where ''working-class'' people who's ancestors have predominantly been in this country for over one-hundred years makes sense? What is this the coal-miners is West Virginia?

Moving away from the work-force, it's obvious how bad the drug-problem is on Staten Island. Where else can these losers end up? Getting 39 credits to get accepted into the ''Academy'' isn't as difficult as it sounds (even for a drug-addict). They obviously can't do drugs if that's their job. They'd need a mommy to tell them what to do. For as prejudice as these people are, aren't white men known for being indepedent and self-reliant? What kind of leader of society needs a mommy?

Now, here where's the ''race'' issue comes in. Listen, if there is one person who a white man feels embarrassment to if he makes an inappropriate remark, it's another white men. You think they care about ''low-class whites'' or uneducated non-whites? Hell no. They don't want their reputation being tied into being low class. Racism is directly linked with non-educated losers.

Before the 1960's, there were two people who are Democrat all the way. Inner-city Catholics, and white southerners. These were the two most needy and racist groups in the country. They lacked what evoluting whites had. Things slowly changed (more so for the now non-religious Catholics than the southerners). Brooklyn may have been the worst for catholics. Ironically, white Staten Islanders criticize people who are ''different'', yet their ancestors were urban hoodrads with no skills. In Long Island, they definitely evolved. A decent amount of the ones on Staten Island didn't.

Whites cowardly left the city. Even if people didn't agree, they understood. With Staten Island, how could you understand? The idea of moving to the suburbs was to enhance your life? They're society didn't advance. In fact, they promoted to leach the system. They taught their children they had no potential. People believe there if your making 70K a year (which isn't that good for NYC), than that's all that matters. When you got an hour to live, will you be thinking about your accomplishments or mediocrity you didn't even earn?

They had their different reasons. They were both undereducated, poor and needed the system to make themselves happy. I'm a Democrat and I know my parties faults. One thing about it is, high taxes to give back to unnecessary crap. There are people on Staten Island who claim to be ''Republican'', even though they work for the city.

If New York City were Republican, I guarantee they're job would be owned by a private company, they'd be making 15-20K less a year, working until 55 and they'd have no more social security. Yet, they believe they're ''Republican'' because they're ''white''. Meanwhile, in contrast, the wealthiest in NYC are liberal democrats. They're educated and intellectual. Staten Island's structure isn't.

Think of the wealthy Manhattan liberals as the parents. Think of Staten Island as their white loser child on drugs (kind of like Andy Reid). Think about blacks and immigrants (or as the New York media loves to say the word ''minorities'', even though many groups don't fit the same economic structure) as the other child who was adopted and treated better. Well, no one will hate their parent's. So who do they take their anger out on? Their ''minority'' sibling.

You can relate it back to the days of minstrel shows in the 1800's. What made those whites feel better about themselves? They degraded blacks to make themselves feel socially superior. Those were only for working-class whites. No educated white man wanted to be in there. Well, the south shore of Staten Island indirectly is the closest example of modern-day world. White people (especially cops), don't mind saying the ''N word'' around other whites. It's accepted. If you went to suburban New Jersey and did that, I guarantee no other white man (even if you were a cop), wouldn't invite you to their BBQ. They wouldn't take you seriously and would consider you a negative influence to their families.

The truth is 10 to 15 percent of whites are losers or uneducated or can't rely on themselves. In Staten Island, that'd probably like over 30%. Movies are made about this are also around 30% because it makes upper-middle class whites feel better about themselves.

It's kind of like watching your children play a baseball game. It's entertaining. Upper-middle class whites don't have to humiliate these loser whites, because they can do it themselves. If you were a uneducated white loser in Brooklyn or Queens, you'd be aware of it at every moment. In Staten Island, that's normal.

Loser whites exist in other places, but less. With those ''incidents'' in Bensonhurst, Howard Beach, a little bit in Long Island and other places don't represent those populations. It's more expensive to live there. You have to go to college and make it in the real world. 2 parents have to work. Oftenly, people don't have children or wait a long time. Many don't get married.

The truth is, Staten Island is getting more expensive too. Those city jobs went from decent to slightly below-average. I pray to god that who ever the new mayor is continues to get rid of this crap. I'd personally make every city job retire at 55. I'd sell the sanitation and other groups to private corporations (sounds like I'm a little conservative now lol).

In Staten Island, bank tellers, secretaries and other jobs for women are common. Those days are changing. There is no reason why a woman can't have a good career in such a liberal city. In Queens, it's common to see two people bring in 75K a year. That's what you need in order to own a mediocre 650 or 700 thousand dollar home. In Staten Island, it's awkward. It condradict the theory that A to B doesn't equal B to A. Cop = white, bank taller = female, however, white doesn't equal cop in the real world.

I guess that isn't true where 2/7 of your men work for the system though. Some ''Republicans'' they think they are. Here is more proof of the non-intellectualism of Staten Island. 56% of Staten Island voted for George W. Bush in 2004. Everyone now knows how crapy he is. Even back than though, people stould firm to their party. Approximately 3/4 of NYC voted for Kerry. 3/5 of New Jersey voted for Kerry. Even the wealthiest and most economically conservative suburbs were near 50/50. Staten Island was above 50.

If it was above 50, the immigrated and poorer areas obviously voted more for Kerry. The middle of the island was likely reprentative of the island. Women have always been known for voting more liberally, therefore how many men (who actually voted) voted for Bush? In the neighboorhood of 3/4. In 2007, that's extremly embarrassing. I doubt anyone would tell you that they voted for him now though. And if they didn't, they'd cutely pretend that Bush isn't as horrible as he actually is.

The next problem in Staten Island is how to manage their money. They try to convince their children when they're young that they are good parents who live in the real world. They'll get a Mercedes, even though they have small houses. Who are they fooling though? Everyone knows it's a lease. Anyone can lease anything. You can severly go into debt with that method though.

I here all the time, why is it that Staten Island owns at 70%, where as the rest of the city owns at 30%. The truth is, Staten Island is a suburb. It's just a crapy one. It has no association with the sociology of the rest of the city. Foreclosures are extremly high compared to the country. Is it worth owning, if you can't afford it? If there is one place that this whole mortgage-criss can really reflect on, it's Staten Island.

They spoiled their children. Their children are unprepared for the real world. They can't handle the pressure and anxiety. So drugs, alcohol and other solutions are their ways for relieving themselves. For the girls, I don't even have to say. The truth is, Staten Island (especially the south shore) has horrible parents. Not everyone is cut out to be a parent. They should have never had children.

Now let's ask ourselves. Am I right? Or is the stubborn irritated subservient civil service descended loser right? If I was wrong, explain this. Staten Island is technically apart of the city, therefore they have low taxes. A 750 thousand dollar home in Staten Island probably will only have taxes in the 4 to 5 thousand range. You know what that is in Nassau? or Monmouth? 16K, 17K. Sometimes 20% of your salary.

If Staten Island was such a lucrative spot, why don't people from these suburbs move there? Think about how much money they'd be saving. People in Staten Island try saying ''it's expensive''. Have you seen the real estate market in Monmouth, Nassau, West Chester, Connecticut or even the rest of the city? The same house in Staten Island could be 100K less. Therefore, real estate fees would be cheaper too. If you worked in Manhattan, you're commute would be getting smaller. You wouldn't even be getting double-taxed for being a New York City resident which will save you a few grand a year. Same thing for being a city resident.

So why not? Well it's a good to want to know why. When most people find out they're discusted. Staten Island has an eight mile dump, with high-population density, potholes and highways that were designed for only about half of it's population. With the exlcusion of Todt Hill (millionares), there are only two people who'd move to Staten Island. A direct immigrant who doesn't know any better, or a loser white person or immigrant in another borough who wants a cheaper lifestyle.

No sucessful human-being would want to move to that trash-infested borough risking the future of their child. That is why so much of Staten Island wants out. You here about the educated ones with futures moving to Monmouth county. Well, at least if there kids don't turn out as lawyers, stock brokers or businessman, they can end up self-reliantly independent (salesmen, entrepreneurs, retail management).

No one in those other suburbs who want to put their kids in New York City public education. I had 38 kids in my freshman Algebra class in Tottenville High School (thank god that was my only year there). I wasn't a human. I was a number. I was a statistic. Ironically, everyone in Staten Island criticizes New Jersey education. New Jersey has great education. People in Monmouth, Burlington, Camden and several other countries prefer to send their kids to public schools.

Real-estate tax funds education. New Jersey and Connecticut have the highest. That is why they have the best students. There is no way to suck off the system there. If you want a fake job like saying the New Jersey turnpike, you'll economically suffer. Just to not pay taxes, you'd prefer to never own real estate. They wouldn't even have the money to send their children to private schools. There is more individualism in New Jersey. There is no back up plan. Most people end up middle-class, but they earn that.

If you live in Staten Island, your options are simple. You can deal with it and pray your children don't do drugs (keep dreaming). You can make your kid a home-schooled hermit who's as isolated from Staten Island as Staten Islanders are from the real world (no one will do that). Or you can get the hell out. Move to Monmouth county. Or even if you are middle class and promote individualism, upstate New York is just fine. Mercer County is good. Middlesex is okay. Even for the people with potential, Florida isn't (unless it's in a major city like Miami or Orlando).

Long Island, Westchester and other places had people there before 1960. Staten Island had 30,000 people. America, through immigrant, health and fertility rates double it's population over the past 57 years. If no migration occured, and a normal American immigrant patern existed, they'd have 50,000 people. They were wiped out though. In between 400,000 and 450,000 losers of all backgrounds were dumped into Staten Island. Some good ones were too. I don't like to generalize everyone, but it's somewhat true. Many of the blacks who came were poor.

Those same jobs like sanitation (I call them the blue-men group because there about as useless as them - they can't even keep the city clean with as many people as they have), weren't availible to blacks. Before the 50's, not that many people were in it. City workers were legitimately middle class. They knew things were changing. They had two options. Mold the white catholic hoodrats, or use blacks and incoming immigrants. They chose the hoodrat whites.

My favorite message on this threat came from the last message on page four from sigma. Similar to me, they told it how it was. No one in there right mind would bring their family to such a mess. If I were them though, I wouldn't egg it on. By demonizing them, you're just egging on their unity. There is no unity in Staten Island.

No one has ethnicities in Staten Island or the suburbs. We're all individual human-beings. It's cute that people think they're Italian, Puerto Rican, Irish or what ever. What use is it though? It's obsolete. Everyone mixes even though there are a lot of each of those groups. There is no such thing as being Italian. If you asked someone on Staten Island what being Italian was, they'd give you some stupid bias answer like rich or a city worker.

Is that what is being Italian though? Hell no. Being Italian is not being anything because it doesn't exist. You could take every white christian on Staten Island who isn't Italian, give them Italian names for the day and tell them to tell everyone there Italian and society would have no reason not to believe it. The same thing could be done with Italians being non-Italian white. Some older parents or grandparents actually eat there own crap. They even go further than that.

They'll call people Irish, who never called themselves Irish and maybe aren't even Irish. They're just too scared to say ''non-Italian white'', because it would challenge there whiteness. Being of Italian or Jewish descent (2/3 to 3/4 of whites in NYC) is what is being of Scottish or German descent in Wisconsin or Alabama. It's useless. If it's common, is it individualized? Socieitally speaking, Italian immigrants influenced New York culture. In order to naturalize a society though, direct immigrant has to be involved with the place it is.

Enclaves in the northeast and the colonial deep south represent that. My expression for why people can't be Italian in Staten Island is the same why someone can't bring a million bags on an airplane. You can't carry heavy bags. People can go around and pretend Catholicism still exists (even though half are miserable, divorced and bigots) and their heritage does to some element. But does it? Reject from Brooklyn created Staten Island. They had no one's lead to follow. That ''accent'' is remotely intentional. It is trash. It represents low-class whites.

Low-class whites can't be camoflage to Monmouth or West Chester county. Therefore, if they have what it takes to leave, where can they really fit in without leaving there jobs (assuming they have a real job in Manhattan)? They can't. They're screwed. They can't fit in. These ''cops'' or ''fireman'' aren't taken seriously. No one would give them a job because they never had one. Ironically, it's almost one extreme to the other. The NYPD is considered a joke by most police departments nationwide because of there underutiliziation. Yet, in NYC, they're taught they're the best cops on earth. Most of the time, NJ wouldn't even give them the rest of giving them a fire-arm liscense.

They can't handle the real world because they were taught the best they could be was average. The best they could do without moving far to Florida, North Carolina or Arizona, would be the Poconos, a place like Bricks, Old Bridge or somewhere that's behind. Uneducated whites worst nightmare is educated whites because it socially belittles them. It makes them feel inferior. There stigmas against ''minorities'' or blacks and immigrants would prevent them for living their too. They want white, they want uneducated and they want their children to turn out sucessful. Two words for all you losers. Too bad.

People in Staten Island can't even do the easiest things normal. You could be in a blockbuster hearing a mom scream at her five year old if they want a blues-clues toy attempting to ''fit in''. In New Jersey, you'd probably never even know they said the same exact thing.

That is why they have to either carefully plan their future before their retired, or develop some sort of skill. Most of the U.S cops are utilize and retire at around 27 years. NYC retires around 22 at average, even though they're underutilizied. Ironic, isn't it? Remember, I'm not bias. I've had to live this life.

I live in southwest New Jersey now. People here never even heard of Staten Island even though it's only an hour away. People hear are as socially isolated from New York City as Baltimore is. Even Mercer county follows this same philosophy. They have the Philadelphia media here, which doesn't promote the racism New York City does. NYC isn't all that racist of a place for whites, because it is very educated (38% have bachelor's degrees, where as 24% of the U.S. does).

The media is apart of the educated. They promote this racism to egg on the different social divisions. When something prejudice happens, they like to make black people look like people who don't know any better, they demonize working-class wants and provide themselves a source of entertainment. They convince the losers to read stupid tabloid papers that lack merit like the Post, because that's all they can handle.

If something racial did happen down here, they'd prefer to keep a low-profile to it. Even when non-racial stuff does happen, they'll write an article about how the FDNY has no black people, even though that's something everyone who lives in NYC knows. Al Sharpton is there example. No black people represent him. No educated black man wishes he had the right to live.

He's even so desperate he's had to go to low-class blacks without being asked. Desperate cities like Philadelphia and New Orleans have told him to get the hell out. As far as I'm concerned he's a greedy white man, who'd have no reason to live if black people were economically equal to whites in the NYC metro area. Has anyone ever heard him talk about anything beyond racism? Even when he ''ran for president''. The only time he's talked about money is when he's been sued or illegaly pocketed funding.It's obvious that there is a prejudice culture in New York that has different social classes.

If you're a good person, never enter Staten Island. I can count the good things on my fingers. Besides pizza, a couple friends and a place to drive through to get somewhere more important, it's the dump it literally has. If you're a good person on Staten Island, either leave, isolate or don't have children. You're in a crapy position, but blame non-educated white losers on Staten Island for this mess. Remember, they would have been better off staying where they were 40 years ago because they would have evolved.

In general, my experience on Staten Island wasn't even all that bad. I lived decent. I was happy. I had good friends. I know there is better though. I lived the first 15 years of my life there (I'm going on 19 now), and I appreciate the good that came out of it. Even if I was an atheist (don't worry, I'm not lol), I'd still thank God that I never lived another year there. There are good people there, just like every society. The society is the problem though.

I'm not expecting a round of applause, but now you know what I said when I'm a blunt person. I tell it how it is. Staten Island is a low-class crapbox that you should never get yourself involved in.

[omigawd]

I would stay away from SI... the commute is ridiculous. You'd be better off in Queens, NJ, or even LI with that kind of commute...

[009]

Goddamn, hell of a first post. I got tired after the 90th paragraph.

[mgs333]

at least he used paragraphs. but man, that is a lot of venting.

[UpPastThree]

I loved it. It was very visual. Thank you.

[mead]

Originally Posted by nyc0127

quote=brombebj;652682]Staten Island seems to have homes at attractive prices, and I was thinking of looking there. I work in Times Square, and my wife and I have a baby on the way. We are looking all over the tri-state areas at affordable options that have good schools, easy commutes, parks for both moms and babies as well as for our dog. Staten Island was recommended as an option, but before I go running in that direction, are there any thoughts out there on the subject....

and it goes on for the next 20 pages...

As I stated in my title, "Yes Virginia, there is Anti-White Prejudice in New York City..."

This HUGE post, possibly the longest of all of the ones I have seen on City-Data, was filled to the brim with Anti-White, Anti-Catholic, Anti-Italian, and Anti-Working-class bias.

I'm not Italian, don't live in Staten Island, and could count on 2 hands the number of times I've been in Staten Island. I'm just an Irish guy in the Bronx, however this post was a ton of B.S., filled with double-standard, hate whitey propaganda.

You think white people are all a bunch of losers? I'm guessing you'd get defensive real quickly if I started enumerating all of the pathologies that the non-white population in the city has. For example, if white pepople are such loosers, how come over 90% of the nearly half a million people in public housing in this city are Non-White? You repeatedly talked about drugs in your post (even though drug use for the whole popultion, both white and black, is fairly small). I think this might be a problem on your end, but you can rest assured that the majority of people working in civil service in Staten Island are not on drugs. I know a lot of cops and firemen, and beer is about as close as they get to using a mind-altering substance.

Clearly you have a problem with Cops, Firemen, and Garbagemen. If somebody wasn't doing those jobs, how do you expect this city to function? Someone has to do those jobs. Far from being "losers" becoming a Cop or Fireman is a fairly wise career choice in my mind. What other non-college educated person can hope to eventually earn around 100k a year, as people in the civil service regularly do?

You also seem to have a beef with Catholicism. Who are you to decide that no Catholics believe in their faith? I'm Catholic and haven't missed Sunday mass in several years. Where do you come off thinking you can judge other people's religious faith? The fact that you would attack a Christian Church, especially on Christmas, was quite trashy on your part . You stay classy....

As to the uneducated part... I don't think I'll place much trust in your rationale as to who is educated or not as you seem to be incapable of properly spelling "Westchester" (It is not "West Chester"; I think being in the Philly media market is getting to your head). Personally I'm in grad school and live in a blue-collar neighborhood in the Bronx, and couldn't feel more comfortable where I'm living.

Yes certainly white, blue-collar neighborhoods, are not the Upper East Side, and people in these neighborhoods don't pretend to be like that. However most of these neighborhoods, which you seem to have a great disdain for, are nice places to live, and that is why they are still around.

I'm sorry NYC01207...whoever you are. You clearly had some bad experiences in Staten Island, however the problem seems to be on your end and not on Staten Island. Staten Island, is and will remain a nice middle-class suburban area of the city. Far from the apocalyptic picture that you painted in your post, Staten Island is a fairly normal suburb, quite typical of a suburban area in the NYC metro area.

[MattSiggs]

If the original poster is still interested, I wouldn't listen to anything NYC0127 said. Clearly, he has some sort of weird grugde towards the island. I only managed to get halfway through the giant wall of text before skimming.

Look, I know a lot of kids that do drugs. I also know a lot of kids that don't do drugs. I hang out with the kids that don't do drugs because my parents were wise enough to instill some sense into me growing up. Crappy parents are every where, not just Staten Island. It's up to the OP himself to raise his kids the right way. It's more than doable on Staten Island. There are a lot of people who don't have an appreciation for education, I'll admit(neither does the rest of the nation- Average SAT score is 1040). But the key is to not hang around those people and chill with the intelligent crowd.

Believe it or not, smart people exist on this island. Staten Island Tech was recently ranked 22nd in the nation. Wagner College's theatre program was ranked #1 a few years back. If you invest in your child's education, it will grow on Staten Island. I honestly wouldn't judge the educational system of Staten Island by the regular freshman track of Tottenville High School. Besides, you wouldn't be a number anywhere else in the city?

And if you're going to vent about the anti-intellectualism on Staten Island(which, by the way, is present all across the nation), spell "crappy" right and check for grammatical errors, please. Poor grammar only makes you seem like you're a part of the anti-intellectual crowd you claim to rise against. Also, "evoluting" is not a word. Evolving is. You're 19, didn't you play Pokemon growing up?

Please don't contradict yourself:
If you're a good person, never enter Staten Island. I can count the good things on my fingers. Besides pizza, a couple friends and a place to drive through to get somewhere more important, it's the dump it literally has. If you're a good person on Staten Island, either leave, isolate or don't have children. You're in a crapy position, but blame non-educated white losers on Staten Island for this mess. Remember, they would have been better off staying where they were 40 years ago because they would have evolved.

And then you write in the next paragraph:
In general, my experience on Staten Island wasn't even all that bad. I lived decent. I was happy. I had good friends. I know there is better though. I lived the first 15 years of my life there (I'm going on 19 now), and I appreciate the good that came out of it. Even if I was an atheist (don't worry, I'm not lol), I'd still thank God that I never lived another year there. There are good people there, just like every society. The society is the problem though.

So it was a decent place that you just spent about 30 paragraphs ripping apart? You were happy, you had good friends, and you "lived decent." It's decently, by the way, and you just totally did a reversal there. That made your argument somehow weaker than it already was.

Where did you get all your stats from, or did you just make all that up to go along with your beliefs? The dump closed down 6 years ago, for your information.

I lived on SI for 19 years of my life. It's not the greatest place to live, but it's certainly not the wasteland you make it seem like. I would characterize Staten Island as just overall average. It's not a spectactular place to live, like Manhattan, but it's also not a decrepit shanty town either.

However, I will tell you what I don't like about Staten Island. I'll be blunt, as you proclaim to be. I have no problem with people taking the sanitation test and becoming sanitation workers. I have no problem with people who don't go to college; it's not for everyone.

I do; however, have a problem with the huge amount of people on Staten Island who act educated when they don't even know the definition of educated. People who call other people retarded, stupid, or idiotic when they clearly aren't the brightest bulbs in the bunch either. People who look down on others for not being smart, yet write with the ability of a sixth grader. There's a lot of phonies and fakes on this island, and that's my one major gripe. Sad to say, you're one of them.

[nyc0127]

First off, let me start out by saying this is an awkward time (Christmas Eve and Christmas) to be talking. I wish you all a Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays.

Do you guys who don't like my message think I'm really that idiotic? I knew there would be some who'd like it. Some who didn't. In a sense, it is relatively bias that I'm not all that in love with Staten Island. However, because I've lived there for the majority of my life, and match each and every criteria I've criticized, how bias really is it? As I said before, I'd know it. I just don't choose to create a happy world in this. I tell it how it is.

So, obviously it was going to be controversial in regard to conflicting opinions. I delivered facts (ex. voted for Bush), statistics and backed myself up well. I'm not vulgar. If you don't like my opinion, no one is forcing you to read it. This is what forums are for. Just because someone came in here and jazzed it up a little doesn't mean it's a bad thing. I didn't want to hurt your eyes, so I'm glad you appreciate me breaking it up into paragraphs.

First off, I'll start out by responding to Mead. I never made any ''personal attacks'' on anyone. I don't plan to either. Criticizing a society isn't a personal attack. You on the other hand, have made a pathetic attempt to try to convince people that I am not worth reading. Get some muscle if you're ready to take a weak swing at someone on Christmas next time.

First off, I'm not anti-white. I am white. I'm not anti-Italian. I am of part Italian descent. In a way, I was actually defending people of Italian descent from stereotypes posted in less backed up posts. I said I didn't see Italian-Americans, nor any other ethnicity from any continent as an ethnicity. I do agree that it is heritage. But whether you're Italian, Chinese, Irish, Cuban or anything, we're all individuals.

If you don't believe me, why through all the 2008 presidential candidates, Rudy Giuliani is not regarded as a candidate of diversity? No Italian-American has ever been president. A female ran as vice president. As a female, it had significance. Hillary Clinton's possible nomination and presidency is too. Joe Lieberman was the first Jewish vice-presidential candidate who people knew was. Mitt Romney, who is white, is regarded as ''different'' because he's a Mormon. Barack Obama, is half African-American (even though few know his father was from Kenya). Even for as American as Bill Richardson's name is, he gets some recognition for being of part Latin American background.

Why do we hear nothing of Giuliani? Sure, his two discusting divorces (including getting an annulment in which he disrespected the Catholic church by getting divorced after), his children wanting nothing to do with him, his liberal views (gay rights, anti-gun rights, pro-choice, stem-cell research) having an awkward presence in the Republican party and other problems. Have we ever heard once about his ancestry through all this though? No. The truth is if you aren't regarded as ''different'' ethnically or religiously, you are seen as blank and white.

Therefore, it has no command over anyone's economic or educational situations. People of all backgrounds succeed just fine all over this country. The backbone of those areas are strong. Staten Island lacks the backbone. My father did work for the city, so I'd know. And I love my father. I'm just saying that the system provided a way of life of deliberate mediocrity without effort, skill or ambition. With all due respect, the south shore should vote socialist. This is the U.S. It's not India.

Throughout New York City, people seem pretty commited to voting for Hillary Clinton or Barack Obama. They always vote Democrat. That is why so little campaigning is done here. Non-citizens in Chinatown have given away their whole bank accounts in hopes of Clinton becoming president. Giuliani on the other hand, who's reputation and chances are slowly dwindling, by no coincidence is ''loved'' by white Staten Islanders. Giuliani's outer family had many civil service people.

His father was an alcoholic, who had been arrested before. He had to work hard to become sucessful. Maybe it makes them feel more ''special'' that someone who has a similar history to them actually has a shot. Most people in New York City before 9/11 were counting how many days Giuliani had left (ironicially the Fireman and Giuliani are considered ''heroes'', yet they have no respect for eachother). City workers were Giuliani's worse nightmare. I believe he did a good job keeping New York together after 9/11, but he was there for how much longer after?

How exactly am I anti-white though? Because I'm simply stating that white people are ahead? It's a fact. It is a fact that Staten Island's public schools are behind educationally. It is a fact that private education is ahead of public in the city. It is a fact that most do send there children to public schools in the city. I hear so much ''praise'' on Tottenville High school. When truth in reality, there graduation rate within a four year span is still mediocre compared to the U.S. at best.

The one thing people on Staten Island get off on is criticizing Brooklyn thoroughly. Some do the same with Manhattan on regards of traffic. It seems like there understanding of what Brooklyn is relates to how their parents and grandparents experience was. For many, the suburban diaspora that led into Staten Island was a failure. The feeling in Staten Island says if you had Brooklyn ancestors before the 60's, it's cool. Anything after that, is not right.

The prejudice sentiment in Staten Island is undeniable. The awkward thing about it is, so many descend from neighborhoods that weren't that racially diverse. I'd love to believe movies like Jungle Fever aren't true, but Spike Lee is one good damn director. These people never even came across blacks. They just felt inferiority to educated whites. Like I said though, people are reluctant to talking against their parents.

Why do they talk so bad about Brooklyn though? Because of how obvious of how Staten Island was a suburban failure? Half of Nassau county may descend from the four boroughs, and did well. Many did well for themselves on Staten Island, but a larger percentage didn't. In Long Island, you couldn't get away with not suceeding. Even in Staten Island you can't now. For a few decades though, you could feel mediocre if you stayed the little box you lived in.

Why do they have such little respect for Brooklyn? The division of rich and poor may be greater. There is no question that the ones most likely to criticize are white. Go there and see for yourself. Maybe there is a reason you'd never live there. Just because people don't talk down on it doesn't mean they want anything to do with it.

Next thing, you're absolutely right about most people not using drugs in civil service. They would have been gone by now. If they were incompetent employees, that's another thing. Many did drugs before taking the jobs to help their depression though. Look up statistics for drug usage. Staten Island's drug usage is rising (especially the south shore). Go into Woodrow plaza, see if the kid's could look you in the eye and concentrate while conversing. There parents ''smooze'' them into becoming city workers, because they know they'll have a convincing reason to stop.

Wouldn't you be the a hypocrite to insinuate I'm a bigot if you claimed ''90%'' of people on drugs flooding into Staten Island are ''non-white''? You couldn't even accumulate bias evidence for that. I wasn't talking about out of borough residents bringing in drug problems. I was talking about problems within Staten Island (primarily the south shore - who are mostly born and raised in Staten Island). Their drug usage is higher than any borough in the city (and very high for the country).

They'd probably get off on saying it's not so bad, because less of their children sell. In the long run though, there is a reason why people awkwardly die at young ages posted in the advance all the time. Personally, selling would do your body better than doing it. If you don't believe me, ask Kyle McAlarney how it destroyed his reputation. Sadly enough, that was one of the gifts Staten Island produced, so it has to be a lot worse for some random C student.

The next thing, you're right about the ''civil-service thing'' earning them 100K. That's not what I'm arguing about. I want you to try to figure out why they want the jobs so much more than white people in other boroughs. Just because you can make 100K as a police officer after 30 years, doesn't mean you were fit to be a police officer. There are many men there who did lines of work they have very little interest for. They simply just go through the motions.

I'm saying those oppurtunities shouldn't exist in the first place. The Fire Department problem exists everywhere in regard that they don't work a whole lot. Police officers are always needed. If you want a ''safe'' life, than maybe it's for you. If you bank 100 bucks a week between 22 and 59 though, you'll have 4 and a half million. I'd rather have that than a pension. So many never worked financially, that they can't manage their own money, so mommy needs to pay them allowance. Sanitation is need as well, but why can't a private company who won't waste tax money and hire as many unnecessary people do it?

Regardless of whether they exist or not, it is blue collared and working class. That's not a bad thing. However, that usually is associated with the Democratic party. They don't appreciate what party is even fighting for them. If you ever attempted to converse with them about any of this, it's be one ear through the other. On this forum, I've appreciated that you guys at least have taking an interest in listening.

We all know many Staten Islanders are sick with Staten Island. If you work for the city, you're stuck for a very long time. That's a lot to stomach. My prediction with Staten Island is that many of it's white residents will leave slowly. More immigrants will move in. Things will continue to get more expensive and over-populated. The city apparently could careless for their education too, if they're splurging all their south-shore students into Tottenville High School. No one is on their side.

I'm happy you're living comfortably in a working-class neighborhood in the Bronx. I appreciate people having a backbone staying within the four boroughs. You obviously know what educational requirements will be necessary to own real estate there. For as blue-collared and city-like as the environment it is you live in, why don't they have as many city jobs as Staten Island (a suburb) does?

The truth is Staten Island is like a lower-middle class man going into a soup kitchen leaving all the homeless to starve. I doubt Staten Islanders have much of a reputation where you live. Quite frankly, they deserve it. You should hear what they have the say about the Bronx. You may not it on here because people tend to be more proper, but go there for yourself.

Going back to their constant criticism of Brooklyn, why don't they compare themselves to other suburbs? Such as ''Westchester'' (happy?), Connecticut, Monmouth or Nassau County? Or even mediocre suburbs such as Middlesex, Orange or Mercer? Because they aren't all that good compared to them. The division between rich and poor is greater in Brooklyn. However, for the majority of the criticizers, the people who look like them in Brooklyn, do very well for themselves.

If you criticized Staten Island, you'd likely get a response from someone who is ''controversy ready'' on Staten Island like ''How would you like living with them n... (yes, they do it) in the projects''? Well, it's like how I said about minstrel shows. Why wouldn't those low-class whites actually come to the conclusion that they were poor useless dirtbags? If they did, they'd lose all self-respect.

Superiority was there compensation. It's sad to say, but on one of the Soprano's episodes, Tony said to his son ''you got your looks, brians and your white.'' I could see that being said on Staten Island. No classly educated white would take pride in being ''white'', being that they're an individual human-being with stature.

The truth of the matter is, Staten Islander isn't the upper-east side like you said. They are lower-middle class. There is nothing wrong with that. When Bloomberg campaigned he said he appreciated the working class Staten Islanders support. Look up working-class in the dictionary (lower-middle class). There is nothing wrong with being lower-middle class (although for most whites, they aren't, and would never want to be), but why can't they accept there lower-middle class? Sometimes they'll go as far to believe they're upper-middle class. Ironic, isn't it?

Ask them how they feel about their similarities to you're neighborhood in the Bronx. See how they feel about elevated immigration that they'll eventually have to endure on all parts of the island. You won't have such a nice taste in your mouth anymore. Stop pretending to be low-class white Staten Islander's attorney. If you're going to do it, at least get paid for it.

Staten Island is not a typical normal suburb. If it was, people would have plummeted into their from all suburbs for economic gains. They haven't. There are a load more people in Staten Island who'd want to work in New Jersey, than visa versa. Why? Generously, Staten Island is a lower-middle class suburb. Economically they are. Educationally they might be able to scrap that out. However intellectually, they are by far the worst place with a significant population in the New York City metropolitan area, which encompasses about six percent of America.

I technically am Catholic, therefore I don't see anything wrong with picking out it's weaknesses. I can go ahead and pretend life is the Brady Bunch, but it isn't. With all due respect, you exactly what I described in my first post. You're like the side of the media who protects or eggs on lower middle-class whites, so you contain the social division between the big and small boys. Trust me, there is a reason why you'll never end up there. If someone like myself was able to remotely put the puzzle together, you'd know something has to be a little wrong with it.

Once again, sorry for the long message. It's better than taking pitiful swings from you without reacting. Once again to all, Merry Christmas.

[mead]

You know, in many instances in life brevity can be a virtue. You could have said all of what you just did in about half of the room. Its quite odd for me to be pointing this out as my posts are generally quite long, however yours are over the top.

First off I would disagree with your contention that Staten Island is a "lower middle class" place. Lets take a look at an income map:



Beyond Manhattan below 96th street, Staten Island seems to be one of the most consistenly well off places in the city, even moreso than Northeastern Queens. Compare that to the Bronx or Brooklyn which both have large swaths of generally poor areas.

If you don't think the fact that Giuliani is both Italian and Catholic is having an impact upon his campaign to be President in the South and Midwest I think you're just plain old delusional. Nobody mentions that Giuliani is Italian or Catholic in this area of the Northeast because a lot of people are both Italian and Catholic. If you go visit rural Alabama I'm sure they'd have a different take on Giuliani's presidential bid.

My neighborhood actually does have a lot of city workers (cops, firemen, transit workers) living here, however the biggest profession in my area is probably construction.

You stated in your post that:

"Staten Island is not a typical normal suburb. If it was, people would have plummeted into their from all suburbs for economic gains. They haven't."

Well actually Staten Island is the fastest growing borough in New York City and Richmond County is the fastest growing county in all of New York State. So I'm a little bit perplexed as to your remark.

Originally Posted by nyc0127

First off, let me start out by saying this is an awkward time (Christmas Eve and Christmas) to be talking. I wish you all a Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays.

....