racial tension in Harlem (New York, Syracuse: real estate, renters, loan)
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Who can forget the Catholic/Jewish neighborhoods from New York to Boston to Philadelphia to Detroit to Chicago that were ethnically cleansed? Left behind was the largest ethnically homogeneous city in the country: Detriot.
First the projects were planned right in the middle of these communities and then federally targeted "blockbuster" mortgages continued the assault to flush out out the hyphenated Americans from their enclaves. Highways were rammed right down the center of ethnic neighborhoods to further fracture the sense of community. More targeted loans pushed these ethnic groups to be "Americanized" in the suburbs. The ethnic cleansing was finished off with terror; unbridled crime, secular degeneracy cleansed these neighborhoods of their residents. This is not spoken about anywhere but it is surely the greatest domestic crime of the century.
Surely this ethnic cleansing was hundreds of times more intense than the scattered incidents you mention. Remember Bushwick, remember the South Bronx, remember Poletown Detriot, remember Hamtramck Detriot, remember Kennsington Philly, remember West Philly we will never forget this ethnic cleansing and those who were displaced and died in the violence. After annexing all of these urban neighborhoods with a mix of federal funding and street violence, it is going to be nearly impossible for the corporate whites to flip Harlem into a yuppie neighborhood. Harlem will surely remain safely black and whatever whites do move in will face fierce resistance. The relevance to this thread is that you have an outsider moving into an ethnic community that has a well developed model of violence. A model that has been used to deliver all needed things from "getting paid" to achieving social adjectives such as increasing ethnic urban territory or intimidating police. It would not be hard to imagine that this model of violence would be used to drive out invading gentrification minded individuals.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Brown
Be glad your not living in the era where people houses were being firebombed and burning crosses being placed in their front lawns because 'blacky was moving in'. Howard Beach and Bensonhurst we will never forget...
Last edited by samyn on the green; 09-26-2009 at 11:02 AM..
I don't think anyone said they (Black Professionals) were the sole cause. I was the one that mentioned their role in the gentrification that has occurred and yes they have had a role. To solely blame it on Whites is naive and unfair.
As for your WI comment, I find that interesting although I'm not totally shocked since WI is one of the whitest states. A lot of people in WI are crazy about their Packers which are overwhelmingly Black but I guess it's not cool for Blacks to live in their neighborhoods? Troubling.
I appreciate your response. Thanks for clarifying. Hope I did not offend you.
Woke up this morning thinking of the irony in this thread--flip sides of the same coin really. I'm thinking that whenever the economy takes a turn for the worse, racism rears its ugly head--in every camp. Many people draw lines and create enemies or make people who are different out to be scapegoats. In Madison, Black people are treated as interlopers by most White Madisonians--yes, except as sports figures, entertainers, tourists passing through, or service workers. In Harlem, White people are treated as interlopers by many Black and Latino Harlemites. Sad state of affairs. "When will we ever learn?" This is not true of everyone. After being back in Madison for only about three weeks or so, I have made connections with people of a variety of races. My take on it is that race doesn't matter, unless someone really thinks it matters. A very wise former colleague of mine once said that. Now I find the truth of it staring me in the face. I don't choose my friends based on race, but now I am living in a city where I am being excluded in large part because of my race. Makes job hunting a challenge, to say the least.
OP, all idealism aside, it is best to be safe or careful, imo, and not so surprised. Decide for yourself how much you can tolerate, and then when the time comes decide if it is worth it to you to stay. Weigh the pros and the cons. That's what I am doing. Hope this helps.
I think there is an unfair double standard among black people which borderlines racist.
They hate it when White people move in to "their" so-called "neighborhood" (Harlem in this case)
But praise black migration to White neighborhoods forcing White people to move from the sudden demographic change...I don't get it.
Black people complain and put up resistance to White people moving in to their neighborhood but also complain and make a scene if White people don't want Black people in their neighborhood?
By Black people not wanting White people in their neighborhood, isn't that the same thing as White people not wanting Black people in their neighborhood? How can you justify both scenarios without being called a racist against Whites? Isn't that reverse racism?
I bring it up because I see a lot of Black people on older threads praising "white flight" when it occured back in the 50s and 60's yet get mad when White people move back. Just my thought.
I think there is an unfair double standard among black people which borderlines racist.
They hate it when White people move in to "their" so-called "neighborhood" (Harlem in this case)
But praise black migration to White neighborhoods forcing White people to move from the sudden demographic change...I don't get it.
Black people complain and put up resistance to White people moving in to their neighborhood but also complain and make a scene if White people don't want Black people in their neighborhood?
By Black people not wanting White people in their neighborhood, isn't that the same thing as White people not wanting Black people in their neighborhood? How can you justify both scenarios without being called a racist against Whites? Isn't that reverse racism?
I bring it up because I see a lot of Black people on older threads praising "white flight" when it occured back in the 50s and 60's yet get mad when White people move back. Just my thought.
I agree. It's so obvious that racism comes in all colors and that black/hispanic people are often even more racist in general than white people.
If you black people don't want white people to move to Harlem (that is predominantly black), could you kindly pack your bags and leave lower Manhattan because it's predominantly white?
When we all stop overgeneralizing about race we will all be better off. Black people are not one monolithic group. Neither are White or Latino people. There is no "you people." The problem is that the people who are the most negative are often the most visible or the loudest--in every camp.
When we all stop overgeneralizing about race we will all be better off. Black people are not one monolithic group. Neither are White or Latino people. There is no "you people." The problem is that the people who are the most negative are often the most visible or the loudest--in every camp.
Thank you for providing a voice of reason.
There is a difference between white flight and what the OP is experiencing. For example, whites generally left voluntarily when minorities moved into many NYC neighborhoods because they had a low opinion of and didn't want to live with non-whites. They may have felt forced to move, but really it was a collective matter of choice.
The fear in Harlem is that gentrification will eventually force residents to move. It's different, but I do think that people should be able to live where ever they choose and shouldn't be harassed. Neighborhoods change. That's the way it is.
As someone else mentioned, the other thing that makes the situation more tense in Harlem is that it's a historically black neighborhood. My husband and I considered moving to Harlem several years ago, but instead moved to the Bronx. It was traditionally an Irish neighborhood, although whites are a minority now (it's majority Latino), and I've had no problems of this sort. Previous to this we lived in Inwood, another formerly Irish neighborhood that changed to majority Latino. I didn't have problems there either.
After annexing all of these urban neighborhoods with a mix of federal funding and street violence, it is going to be nearly impossible for the corporate whites to flip Harlem into a yuppie neighborhood. Harlem will surely remain safely black and whatever whites do move in will face fierce resistance. The relevance to this thread is that you have an outsider moving into an ethnic community that has a well developed model of violence. A model that has been used to deliver all needed things from "getting paid" to achieving social adjectives such as increasing ethnic urban territory or intimidating police. It would not be hard to imagine that this model of violence would be used to drive out invading gentrification minded individuals.[/quote]
I agree with most of what's been said in this post but I'd just like to add that blacks in Harlem aren't the only ones causing the tensions. I'm in Harlem almost every day and as an avid people watcher I see most the white folks there clamoring together like they're trying to create a bloc--like a "Caucasiantown" or "Little Whiteyville" inside Harlem. It's disgusting and inducive to the animosity from blacks. I've seen them (white women especially) walk on the outside of scaffolds or cross the street at the sight of oncoming blacks, or turn their heads away to avoid looking at us. It's pretty obvious the majority of them want nothing to do with Harlem blacks (except the bourgeois "Cosbyite" types) and are quietly waiting for them/us to leave (of course they'll be waiting a long time since Harlem will never be all or mostly white*).
Wow, I'm really shocked to hear this coming from a white Harlem resident. I am a black female living in Harlem, and I can honestly say I've never seen a white person being harassed on the street. I'm not trying to discredit your story or deny that it has happened; I'm just saying I've yet to see it. White people around here are like fixtures now; you see them jogging through the blocks, walking their dogs--just going about their daily lives as if they are oblivious to the blacks who are hanging out on the corner. You see them in supermarkets shopping amongst everyone else. For the past 15 years, they've been apart of this community, and I have yet to see anyone harass or terrorize them in any way. White people in this community seem to be extremely aloof and not willing to mingle with the rest of the Harlem natives. I mean, in a sense I understand why they don't; people who are often of different tax brackets usually don't interact, but one can't help but to see the obvious wall of division. This is no cause to make someone feel "unwelcomed", but it's not as if white people are going out of their way to try to get to know us, either.
Personally , I think that black people are going to think that you are trying to use the name to sound trendy. That you are a liberal that wants to be involved in change so you can tell your friends all about how you are so evolved and changing how people relate to each other. That you are really not interested in the people there and have nerve for being in Harlem because its almost like a culture of its own being a Harlem resident. I am not saying thats what you are doing and I cant read peoples minds. I am almost dumbfounded that you would think it would be easy to live in Harlem.It perplexes me every time. We are all people but sometimes being an actor and then compare it with some of the struggles that they feel they have faced and you have nothing in common with them.
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Hypocrites come in all colors, too.
