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Old 11-17-2009, 07:25 PM
 
Location: Springfield Gardens, NY
1,119 posts, read 1,759,520 times
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Yesterday I got stopped by transit police in Queens and was giving a ticket for "Unsafe Riding" (i.e. Walking between the cars) in which the fine is $75.00. For anyone who's been through a similar situation... Is the process similar to getting a traffic ticket? Since this is my very first (and hopefully last) citation (plus the fact that I am a college student) - Do you think i'll be able to get the fine reduced? The cop who wrote the summons explained to me that I can request a reduction of the fee since I have a clean record and that I am a student. Also what happens during the so-called "hearing" -- is it like traffic court? Just trying to get an understanding of the process. Thanks!
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Old 11-18-2009, 06:36 AM
 
Location: Brooklyn
40,059 posts, read 20,017,663 times
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I can tell you one thing as an MTA employee (and former conductor): they don't give out enough of those summonses! Every year, there are at least two dozen deaths as a result of people walking between subway train cars. You think they'd have more common sense, but there's apparently an endless supply of people who haven't got any of that quality.

Hopefully, this'll be the last time you have to get ticketed for unsafe riding!
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Old 11-18-2009, 11:57 AM
 
Location: Upper East, NY
1,144 posts, read 1,393,057 times
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It's basically like traffic court. You can show up for a hearing or mail in an appeal. If you appeal by mail, you must get the document notarized, which can be another $10-20.

There may be a stealth way to get a discount if you decide to pay up without contesting. There was a nytimes article on this re: traffic tickets.
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Old 11-20-2009, 05:56 PM
 
1 posts, read 4,723 times
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Wink MTA citation

My experience;
Went with one of my children.
More courteous than traffic court.
Wish I had known one could ask for a reduction.
You can't beat this unless you had a real emergency.

Skip a few take-outs to compensate.
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Old 11-20-2009, 06:40 PM
 
104 posts, read 191,792 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred314X View Post
I can tell you one thing as an MTA employee (and former conductor): they don't give out enough of those summonses! Every year, there are at least two dozen deaths as a result of people walking between subway train cars. You think they'd have more common sense, but there's apparently an endless supply of people who haven't got any of that quality.

Hopefully, this'll be the last time you have to get ticketed for unsafe riding!
Curious as to why the trains are even setup to allow people to walk through them if so many people die doing it? My gut feeling is that it has to do with safety, if something were to happen with the train but then they could just put a feature on the doors where you could open them then. (Maybe there is such feature, I don't know, never actually walked between subway cars)

Just seems a little silly to allow something like that. Also, I've never actually walked between different subway cars but never even knew there was a problem with it. I saw it constantly this summer.
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Old 11-20-2009, 09:27 PM
 
Location: LQA, Seattle, Washington
461 posts, read 846,238 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lowndes View Post
Curious as to why the trains are even setup to allow people to walk through them if so many people die doing it? My gut feeling is that it has to do with safety, if something were to happen with the train but then they could just put a feature on the doors where you could open them then. (Maybe there is such feature, I don't know, never actually walked between subway cars)

Just seems a little silly to allow something like that. Also, I've never actually walked between different subway cars but never even knew there was a problem with it. I saw it constantly this summer.
Everytime I've ridden the subway (which admittedly is only a dozen or so times) I see people walking between the cars. I didn't even know it was illegal until I saw a sign by one of the doors. It's interesting because I've been on other systems where it's legal.
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Old 11-20-2009, 10:25 PM
 
Location: Now in Houston!
923 posts, read 2,475,785 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred314X View Post
I can tell you one thing as an MTA employee (and former conductor): they don't give out enough of those summonses! Every year, there are at least two dozen deaths as a result of people walking between subway train cars. You think they'd have more common sense, but there's apparently an endless supply of people who haven't got any of that quality.

Hopefully, this'll be the last time you have to get ticketed for unsafe riding!
Fred, while I totally agree with your opinion, I've got to dispute your numbers.

It doesn't seem to be possible that a person dies every two weeks (on average) solely from walking between cars.

I did a quick Google search and found one study done by Newsday/AMNY that reported in 2006 there were only 23 total deaths from all causes on the subway trains and in stations. Only 5 were from accidents of any kind. 8 were from natural causes (heart attacks, etc.). There were also 5 suicides, 2 murders and 3 deaths from "unknown causes".

At least two of those accidental deaths did happen between the cars, one was a guy who tried to climb between the cars from the platform because the train was packed and the other was a homeless man who was trying to urinate while riding between cars.
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Old 11-20-2009, 11:48 PM
 
784 posts, read 1,782,456 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UpstaterInBklyn View Post
Fred, while I totally agree with your opinion, I've got to dispute your numbers.

It doesn't seem to be possible that a person dies every two weeks (on average) solely from walking between cars.

I did a quick Google search and found one study done by Newsday/AMNY that reported in 2006 there were only 23 total deaths from all causes on the subway trains and in stations. Only 5 were from accidents of any kind. 8 were from natural causes (heart attacks, etc.). There were also 5 suicides, 2 murders and 3 deaths from "unknown causes".

At least two of those accidental deaths did happen between the cars, one was a guy who tried to climb between the cars from the platform because the train was packed and the other was a homeless man who was trying to urinate while riding between cars.
So throw away those two incidents and you have what, 3 deaths from accidents from walking between cars? Think about how many times this is done every day? I'd have to estimate at least 1,000. Estimate 1,000 times a day x 365 days a year x 50 years = 2 out of 18MM accident rate. I'll take those odds.

I do walk between subway cars - mostly when I just catch the train from the stairs, since I know what car I have to be in! I know it's illegal but I have never seen anyone care.
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Old 11-21-2009, 01:02 AM
 
Location: Now in Houston!
923 posts, read 2,475,785 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYCAnalyst View Post
So throw away those two incidents and you have what, 3 deaths from accidents from walking between cars? Think about how many times this is done every day? I'd have to estimate at least 1,000. Estimate 1,000 times a day x 365 days a year x 50 years = 2 out of 18MM accident rate. I'll take those odds.
You actually have only three deaths from ANY kind of accident. I would assume that accidental falls from the platform, tunnel trespassing or some other circumstance resulting in a bodily collision with a moving train make up those remaining accidental deaths.
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Old 11-22-2009, 07:29 AM
 
Location: Brooklyn
40,059 posts, read 20,017,663 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UpstaterInBklyn View Post
You actually have only three deaths from ANY kind of accident. I would assume that accidental falls from the platform, tunnel trespassing or some other circumstance resulting in a bodily collision with a moving train make up those remaining accidental deaths.
OK, if you say so. I'm not up on the statistics. All I know from working here is that we have a hell of a lot more than three deaths a year in subway-related accidents.

As to why trains were set up to permit people to walk between cars in the first place, that was originally done to let people relieve crowding in one particular car. When the number of accidents began to climb, the model R-46 and R-68 cars (you see them on the A, D, F and Q lines) featured end doors you can't walk through. But the new models R-143 and R-160 do allow movement between cars.

Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.
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