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Moved into Manhattan in 1979 when you could still get a rent stablized Studio for $300, a one bedroom for $450 and a 2 bedroom for $600. All in a doorman building and some with balconies.
A large (900 sqft) one bedroom plus terrace in a doorman building, sold for somewhere south of $100K
You could get a 3 course dinner for 2 with drinks, tax and tip for about $45, and we're not talking diner but a fine dining establishment.
Broadway, no problem, good orchestra seats about $30.
Yeah Yeah, I know salaries were much lower, but somehow it all seemed very doable for the average joe.
Moved into Manhattan in 1979 when you could still get a rent stablized Studio for $300, a one bedroom for $450 and a 2 bedroom for $600. All in a doorman building and some with balconies.
The really sad part is that there are still many areas of the country where this is the market rate for apartments.
We moved to Manhattan in 1982 and it was already fairly expensive, although nothing compared to what it is today. We spent the first couple of months in the Gramercy Park Hotel (which was then a bit of a dive) while we looked for a place. We found that unless you knew someone (we didn't), all of the cheap apartments were dumps (tub in kitchen) or had expensive broker's fees. We ended up in a gorgeous, no-fee duplex in Murray Hill for $1200. It was a great apartment, with a huge floor-to ceiling window and view of the Chrysler Building.
It all seemed doable for the average Joe because the average Joe at that time was not also spending exorbitant amounts for cell phones, cable/internet, traffic/parking fines, $100 jeans/shirts, $4 coffees, $50,000-$100,000 in student loans, etc. We are saddled with so much debt and pricey consumption from the getgo that it is difficult to afford anything.
And as for dreaming of the "old days" of 1979..I will happily pass on that. You seem to forget that in 1979 the city was on the verge of total insolvency and bankruptcy, entire swaths of the city were burned to the ground and basically abandoned, much of the now decent areas of Manhattan (like Hells Kitchen, LES, Times Square) were filthy/crime filled, crime was completely out of control, as were gangs and drug violence, there was a total disinvestment/deterioration in the city and the middle class was running to the suburbs in record numbers, the parks were totally off-limits and filled with drug addicts/homeless/prostitutes, the subway was a filthy, crime filled, graffitti mess, and the economy was in the toilet.
So you can pine away for 1979, but I will gladly take 2009 any day.
It all seemed doable for the average Joe because the average Joe at that time was not also spending exorbitant amounts for cell phones, cable/internet, traffic/parking fines, $100 jeans/shirts, $4 coffees, $50,000-$100,000 in student loans, etc. We are saddled with so much debt and pricey consumption from the getgo that it is difficult to afford anything.
And as for dreaming of the "old days" of 1979..I will happily pass on that. You seem to forget that in 1979 the city was on the verge of total insolvency and bankruptcy, entire swaths of the city were burned to the ground and basically abandoned, much of the now decent areas of Manhattan (like Hells Kitchen, LES, Times Square) were filthy/crime filled, crime was completely out of control, as were gangs and drug violence, there was a total disinvestment/deterioration in the city and the middle class was running to the suburbs in record numbers, the parks were totally off-limits and filled with drug addicts/homeless/prostitutes, the subway was a filthy, crime filled, graffitti mess, and the economy was in the toilet.
So you can pine away for 1979, but I will gladly take 2009 any day.
You hit it right-on regarding the extra expenses of today, utilities including phone, basic cable and electricity ran about $75 in total then.
You tend to exaggerate the conditions in Manhattan and your timeline is a little off. The city reached it's low in the decade of the late 60's through the end of the Beame administration in 1976. By the time I moved to Manhattan, the city was already climbing out of the nadir and headed for the 1980's renaissance. During those days, nearly everyone in Manhattan lived on the east side between 14th and 96th Streets and the westside from Lincoln Center to 86th street with some gentrified pockets above that. Entertainment was centered above 34th street with only the Village, Little Italy and Chinatown worth venturing below.
Hells Kitchen, Lower Eastside and Times Square weren't in anyone's vocabulary and therefore they weren't missed.
You said the parks were totally off limits - at night, that was and may still be true, but I walked to work daily through Central Park at 8AM (from W. 96th to E.59th) and never encountered a problem.
The traffic both pedestrian and vechile were a pleasure compared to today, and taxi drivers were born and bred in New York with lots of story's to tell. People still whistled a tune in the street, no one was wired in yet with the exception of a Sony walkman here and there.
Just think in 30 years you'll be waxing how inexpensive and great things were in 2009.
If I can give you one piece of advice, it's capitalize on Manhattan real estate, it's always a good investment. It allow me to retire early.
Shep the nadir form the city was most certianly NOT in the 60s, in fact the city had the highest employment rate ever in 1969, and we still have not reached that level again to this day. It was the decade of the 70s that brought the city to its knees, and 1979 was only marginally better than 1976. If you recall that "80s renaissance" started AFTER the recession of the early 80s, with double digit unemployment, only recently rivaled by today's record unemployment rate due to the near collapse of our economy.
As for Manhattan, how can you say Times Square wasn't in anyone's vocabulary? It was probably one of the top 4 tourist attractions in the city, and certainly the world knew all about the "famous" Times Square. Of course it was really engulfed by pimps/prostitutes/drugs/porn shops/perverts. As for the LES/Hell Kitchen, it was also in people's vocabulary, as a place to stay away from, like alot of Brooklyn, forget about the Bronx, and north of 96th street was a total wasteland/crime zoo.
The parks were off limits during the day, except for the adventurous few, and completely unpassable at night, for fear of robbery/stepping on needles. If you believe this may still be true, then you have not visited a park in NYC over the last 10 years. I don't doubt that you walked through Central Park everyday and never encountered a problem, but that does not mean there were not serious problems with the park.
I do agree that traffic was better back then, but immigrants had already filled the ranks of NYC cabbies, whether they were first generation Italians, Puerto Ricans, or newly arrived Arabs. I also agree that in 30 years I will be "waxing" how inexpensive things were in 2009, but considering the near collapse of the economy, a record high unemployment rate/foreclosures, and horrendous deficits, I HOPE that I look back at 2009 as a LOW point and marvel at how much better 2039 is.
I would caution anyone about taking the advice that "Manhattan RE is always a good investment." Alot of people lost everything in the real estate bust of the 90s, and many are losing everything in this bust as well. Those that bought for the LONG term and decades ago, and did not have to sell during the "bust years" (like now), did well. That's one of the golden rules of RE and is not unique to Manhattan.
This is true, I was not around. But my parents/family were. How can the 60s be worse than the massive destruction/devastation of the 70s, and subsequent total abandonment of huge swaths of the city, with the middle class high tailing it out of the city in record numbers? I thought you might know Viral.
I don't think you were around in the 60s. We were. It was worse then. TRUST ME. I remember when Madison and Fifth Avenue were two-way streets.
You tell him Viral!
You've been around longer than me!
SobroGuy:
"The parks were off limits during the day, except for the adventurous few, and completely unpassable at night, for fear of robbery/stepping on needles. If you believe this may still be true, then you have not visited a park in NYC over the last 10 years. I don't doubt that you walked through Central Park everyday and never encountered a problem, but that does not mean there were not serious problems with the park."
I still wouldn't walk through any city park after sundown, you're
looking for trouble.
"I would caution anyone about taking the advice that "Manhattan RE is always a good investment." Alot of people lost everything in the real estate bust of the 90s, and many are losing everything in this bust as well. Those that bought for the LONG term and decades ago, and did not have to sell during the "bust years" (like now), did well. That's one of the golden rules of RE and is not unique to Manhattan."
Maybe not unique to Manhattan but you have potential to make far more
on your investment over time.
I bought my first 2 pieces of real estate at the height of the 80's boom
and had the patience to hold on and didn't sell until 2003. Bought my
3rd 1994 and it has quadrupled since even in this depressed market.
The problem today is that nobody has any patience. Everyone is
looking for the quick buck.
"I also agree that in 30 years I will be "waxing" how inexpensive things were in 2009, but considering the near collapse of the economy, a record high unemployment rate/foreclosures, and horrendous deficits, I HOPE that I look back at 2009 as a LOW point and marvel at how much better 2039 is."
If you're currently employed and stay employed, then this downturn
means nothing in the long run. I keeping hearing about the high
unemployment of the early 1980's but for me personally I really don't
recall it since I worked right through it and it left no impression.
This is true, I was not around. But my parents/family were. How can the 60s be worse than the massive destruction/devastation of the 70s, and subsequent total abandonment of huge swaths of the city, with the middle class high tailing it out of the city in record numbers? I thought you might know Viral.
Check out the statistics for the boroughs, in most sections of Brooklyn the exodus of the middle class to the suburbs began in the early 1960's, by 1970 the exodus in places like Brownsville, East New York, Williamsburg, Greenpoint, Bed-Stuy, etc was already complete. Similar in the Bronx.
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