Thoughts on gentrification thread - Part 2 (New York, Victor: felons, new construction, minimum wage)

[JAGED]

Originally Posted by gradstudent77

I'm not going to change your mind, so I don't really see a point in rebutting all your arguments. If you want to challenge your ideas and try to see the other side (that an individual's life outcomes are primarily decided by his own will and his own choices), check out Theordore Dalrymple's "Life at the Bottom: The Worldview that makes the Underclass". If you choose to read it, don't let his attitude about stupid things like tattooing and pop music distract you from the underlying message.

The "ghetto" folks he writes about are primarily white, as he is writing from England, but the same dynamic applies to what we have going on here in the US. I just mention this because I think there was some mention of race in your post.

How many people will decide to choose a different path from their families that have lived in poverty for generations? Only a select few. It is a societal problem and needs to be solved with a societal remedy. Gentrification is not the answer. That is my argument, don't get confused.

[Shizzles]

/\ I'm confused as to what this topic is about now. Are we talking about the economics of poverty (which, IMHO, would be better suited to it's own thread), or are we talking about criminal/lower class behavior? Moderator cut: Please address the issues of the discussion.

I'm not going to launch into a big social commentary lecutre on this particular thread, but what I will say is "Blame Society" is exactly the mindset that lands alot of people in the place they're in. Poverty and "Ghetto" to me are two different phenominoms with different roots.

"Society" doesn't make you scratch train windows, throw litter or smoke weed. Your lack of respect for others does.

[Andez]

Originally Posted by Shizzles

/\ I'm confused as to what this topic is about now. Are we talking about the economics of poverty (which, IMHO, would be better suited to it's own thread), or are we talking about criminal/lower class behavior? Moderator cut: Please address the issues of the discussion.

I'm not going to launch into a big social commentary lecutre on this particular thread, but what I will say is "Blame Society" is exactly the mindset that lands alot of people in the place they're in. Poverty and "Ghetto" to me are two different phenominoms with different roots.

"Society" doesn't make you scratch train windows, throw litter or smoke weed. Your lack of respect for others does.

Wait, what does smoking weed have to do with that?

[JAGED]

Yea I don't think smoking weed or littering for that matter should be on the list. Even scratchitti is not that bad of a crime. I personally really like graffiti as I sometimes do it myself and believe it is a beautiful art. I think we should focus more on people being murdered and dealing crack then those petty crimes. I'm sorry to say Shizzles but I don't think NYC will ever be rid of those 3 heinous crimes you listed.

[twist07]

I'm not so sure of the corny graffiti like people writing random things with markers, but that elaborate graffiti thats all colorful with much style like what you see by the T.A.T.S crew or in murals for the dead. That won't die and it shouldn't, so I'd concur with you there. Poverty existed well before herb smoking and graffiti so I don't think those are causes. But they do make certain people uncomfortable.

[Viralmd]

The topic is gentrification. It's not graffiti, or the economics of poverty. Please keep posts ON TOPIC.

[cyrusjul]

I think Gentrification has helped NYC somewhat. Tourist now have more options to visit places in the city. Not just in the heart of the city. Places like Harlem, Williamsburg, Park Slope and the surrounding nabes. Tourist bring the money for many of the businesses there. If these places were not gentrify then there will be no reason for a tourist to visit and feel somewhat safe to hang around. Like I have many visitors that come to NYC and now want to go to these places and to hang around and buy stuff from these neighborhoods, like food or clothes, etc.

[JAGED]

Originally Posted by cyrusjul

I think Gentrification has helped NYC somewhat. Tourist now have more options to visit places in the city. Not just in the heart of the city. Places like Harlem, Williamsburg, Park Slope and the surrounding nabes. Tourist bring the money for many of the businesses there. If these places were not gentrify then there will be no reason for a tourist to visit and feel somewhat safe to hang around. Like I have many visitors that come to NYC and now want to go to these places and to hang around and buy stuff from these neighborhoods, like food or clothes, etc.

Not that I am saying that safety does not matter, but tourism was at an all time high in 1990 and that was when NYC was murder capital and crime capital. We had just as many tourists just last year as in 1990. If you are saying gentrification creates more tourists because of safety issues then i completely disagree with that.

[UpstaterInBklyn]

Originally Posted by JAGED

Not that I am saying that safety does not matter, but tourism was at an all time high in 1990 and that was when NYC was murder capital and crime capital. We had just as many tourists just last year as in 1990. If you are saying gentrification creates more tourists because of safety issues then i completely disagree with that.

Fact check:

There were actually almost double the number of tourists visiting NY in 2009 than in 1990.

The numbers:
1990: 25 million tourists (source)
2009: 45.25 million tourists (source)

[JAGED]

Originally Posted by UpstaterInBklyn

Fact check:

There were actually almost double the number of tourists visiting NY in 2009 than in 1990.

The numbers:
1990: 25 million tourists (source)
2009: 45.25 million tourists (source)

What I meant to say is that NYC was the most visited city by tourists in 1990 and it was the first time since 1990 that NYC became the most popular tourist destination. So I still stand by my argument that gentrification has little to do with tourism.

http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/...announces.html