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Old 01-03-2010, 09:01 PM
 
784 posts, read 1,762,820 times
Reputation: 427

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Quote:
Originally Posted by DewDrop149 View Post
nobody is saying that you're entitled to live across the street from your job, but you shouldnt have to live 2 hours away in another town or state either. In a city as big as new york there should be room for everyone to co exist...rich, poor,black,white they should all have access to decent neighborhoods with a decent lifestyle....Everyone should be able to take thier kid to yankee stadium or use the parks on randalls island or go to a museum not just the richest people...if you look back at history, in the 40's and 50's most of the city was working class...even in manhattan neigborhoods like the upper west side and hell's kithchen....in order for a city to be a city there should be room for everyone
If someone doesn't like living far away from their job, they should either

  • Get another job closer to where they live, or
  • Get a job that pays more so they can afford the rent in the pricier neighborhoods.

 
Old 01-03-2010, 09:01 PM
 
7 posts, read 23,245 times
Reputation: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woozle View Post
The median household income in Manhattan is only $76,000. Only 16.4% of Manhattan households earn over $200,000 annually. Only around 35% of Manhattan households earn over $100,000 a year (source: American factfinder, 2006-2008)



Only 25% of Manhattanites own their place of residence. Fewer than half of Manhattan rental apartments are free-market. The typical Manhattanite is a renter and is more likely to live in a rent-stabilized/government housing. He is NOT a wealthy European nor a trust funder.



Only 6.3% of New York City households earned over $200,000. Granted, it is more than the national average of 4.2%, but given the much higher living costs of the city, it does not appear that New Yorkers, overall, are measurably wealthier than the rest of the country (in fact, they're poorer, given the net loss of several hundred thousand American-born residents of greater New York City over the last decade to better places elsewhere in the country).



Not sure where you got the data, but anyway. Per capita income in New York City was $30,415, while in the US overall it was $27,466. Give the very rough estimate of the financial sector providing under 5% of all jobs in NYC, but close to 25% of the total payroll, I would say a New Yorker who does NOT work on Wall Street is a pretty poor sumbich.



Again, fewer than 5% of all jobs in New York City are in finance - and yet, they receive 25% of the total payroll in the city and pay a lion's share of local taxes.

This is a city that lives off of Wall Street. I am not sure what your point is.



Um, yeah, from under 2% to 6%. I don't quite get your fascination with the tiniest of minorities - Wall Streeters, white Harlemites, etc. Your obsession with those several percent while ignoring the other 95% is rather curious.



Now, how about the white population in the Bronx, Staten Island, and Queens? Brownstone Brooklyn is experiencing gentrification, whereas the northern Bronx, central Staten Island are experiencing the same ole white flight. This, by the way, was the first decade since the 1940's or 50's that New York City did not experience a net outflow of whites. Giuliani and Bloomberg are apparently doing SOMETHING good to their core constituencies now that they're not fleeing in droves like they used to.



And yet, the outer boroughs of NYC were considered middle America strongholds from the 50's through the 70's: the land of Honeymooners and Archie Bunkers. Curious.

New York City was home to the headquarters of over 140 of the largest 500 corporations in the country in 1950. By 2000, the number was down to a bit over 40. Wall Street was one of the very, very few private employers that did not flee along with the rest of the "middle America".



Er.. the vast majority of Queens, Brooklyn and Staten Island are made up of cookie-cutter homes. New York does NOT attract the rich: only 6.3% of NY households earn over $200,000 a year, and the share of millionaire households is far higher in Connecticut than New York.

New York does not attract the young: the stereotypical Williamsburg hipster is a drop in the NYC bucket.

It does, obviously, attract immigrants. And that is the only point I was trying to make. Americans - rich, poor, young, old, black, white - are abandoning metro New York, and are being replaced by immigrants.
Its confusing how you jump back and forth between New York Metro and New York City to prove whatever you're trying to prove. Which is it?

If it's metro, Connecticut is part of the New York City metro, which according to you, has been abandoned. Connecticut and New Jersey (and Maryland, Hawaii) are the wealthiest states in the US.

Also even more ironic is that the New York metro is losing high net worth households the slowest pace amongst metros, according to the IRS. Even lower than cities like Houston:

Highest % of high net worth individuals metros [net worth $1m+]:

New York 3.6% [561,800]
San Francisco 3.4% [120,800]
Boston 2.9% [89,400]
Washington 2.9% [127,700]
Chicago 2.2% [172,200]
Detroit 2.2% [79,500]
Los Angeles 2.0% [208,200]
Philadelphia 1.8% [87,600]
Houston 1.5% [68,400]

Highest loss of high net worth individuals by metro 2007-2009:

1. Houston
2. Philadelphia
3. Los Angeles
4. Boston
5. Chicago
6. Detroit
7. Washington
8. San Francisco
9. San Jose
10. New York City

Imageshack - nycp6260045.gif

What you've been parroting has been parroted for at least 50 years. New York should be Detroit by now if anything you predict were actually the case. I have no idea why you're dismissing the demographic changes

Need I remind you that New York City is just that, a major city. An urban center. NYC isn't the suburbs. Like ALL major cities, it populated by wealthy/poor/young professional/immigrants. Why does surprise you? Ever been to London? Tokyo? Paris? San Francisco? This isn't the 50s when middle-class families lived in the city.

And like all other major cities, most middle/upper-middle class families live in the suburbs, only the very wealthy ones live in Manhattan. NY happens to have the wealthiest suburbs in the US and lots and lots of middle-class suburbs. The metro also happens to have the wealthiest city core in the US, perhaps the world. NY has never masqueraded as middle-America town, so if that's what you want....wrong city. You'll be happier in Birmingham.

New York is much safer, wealthier and more gentrified than it was when the last wave of native NYers supposedly fleed to Alabama or South Carolina or wherever.

Hopefully the trend continues.

Last edited by aleksander e; 01-03-2010 at 09:16 PM..
 
Old 01-03-2010, 09:02 PM
 
461 posts, read 1,176,959 times
Reputation: 310
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeventhFloor View Post
wow with that attitude it is evident that you see that the guy who sells u your newspaper, the guy that pumps your gas, the guy that rings up your groceries doesnt have a place in this city. well, to hell with it, replace them all with robots and maybe you'll be satisfied.

Why are you sympathetic to these people?

Its plain and simple. They are now paying for their poor choices in life which has forced them to take a minimum wage job. Want a better job? Get educated. Why is that so difficult to understand? The problem is that they are too lazy to so. Its easier to complain and open your mouth than it is to sit in a class room and get an education.

THEY MUST SLEEP IN THE BED THEY MADE.
 
Old 01-03-2010, 09:08 PM
 
Location: Confines of the 101 Precinct
10,285 posts, read 18,499,302 times
Reputation: 3759
Quote:
Originally Posted by victorfox View Post
Why are you sympathetic to these people?

Its plain and simple. They are now paying for their poor choices in life which has forced them to take a minimum wage job. Want a better job? Get educated. Why is that so difficult to understand? The problem is that they are too lazy to so. Its easier to complain and open your mouth than it is to sit in a class room and get an education.

THEY MUST SLEEP IN THE BED THEY MADE.
its not about being sympathetic its the point that somebody must do these jobs...it is essential. in my complex im not encouraging the porters to go to college, somebody needs to do it.
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Old 01-03-2010, 09:10 PM
 
784 posts, read 1,762,820 times
Reputation: 427
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeventhFloor View Post
its not about being sympathetic its the point that somebody must do these jobs...it is essential. in my complex im not encouraging the porters to go to college, somebody needs to do it.
There are 8MM+ people in this city and over 18MM+ people in the NYC Metro area. Someone will do it.
 
Old 01-03-2010, 09:15 PM
 
83 posts, read 290,788 times
Reputation: 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by victorfox View Post
Go head. You tell me. So what does:

Affordable housing + section 8 + welfare + food stamps equal what?

What kind of NY demographic is associated with the above?

What kind of demographic is associated with thug-life?

What kind of demographic is associated with NY crimes?

What is the demographic make up of workers earning minimum wage?

What demographic is complaining about low wage jobs for flipping burgers and attending cash registers?
true, they might have low income jobs but whats wrong with that? somebody has to do those jobs and if i had a crappy poor paying job id complain about it, matter of fact i have a crappy decent paying job for the city and i still complain....so what? drug dealers and felons cant even qualify for certain housing and are even barred from nycha property for certain crimes, so these are not the people filling out section 8 housing applications......are there some crooks in section 8 housing? sure there are! all im saying is they're not all criminals. And for you to make general assumptions without stats to back you up makes you sound silly....this is about to turn into a debate about crime versus poverty versus race which nobody on here is qualified to debate about, not even me
 
Old 01-03-2010, 09:20 PM
 
Location: Round Rock Texas
4,102 posts, read 3,077,378 times
Reputation: 4156
Quote:
Originally Posted by aleksander e View Post
Its confusing how you jump back and forth between New York Metro and New York City to prove whatever you're trying to prove. Which is it?

If it's metro, Connecticut is part of the New York City metro, which according to you, has been abandoned. Connecticut and New Jersey (and Maryland, Hawaii) are the wealthiest states in the US.

Also even more ironic is that the New York metro is losing high net worth households the slowest pace amongst metros, according to the IRS. Even lower than cities like Houston:

Highest % of high net worth individuals metros [net worth $1m+]:

New York 3.6% [561,800]
San Francisco 3.4% [120,800]
Boston 2.9% [89,400]
Washington 2.9% [127,700]
Chicago 2.2% [172,200]
Detroit 2.2% [79,500]
Los Angeles 2.0% [208,200]
Philadelphia 1.8% [87,600]
Houston 1.5% [68,400]

Highest loss of high net worth individuals by metro:

1. Houston
2. Philadelphia
3. Los Angeles
4. Boston
5. Chicago
6. Detroit
7. Washington
8. San Francisco
9. San Jose
10. New York City

Imageshack - nycp6260045.gif

Ironic.

What you've been parroting has been parroted for at least 50 years. New York should be Detroit by now if anything you predict were actually the case. I have no idea why you're dismissing the demographic changes

Need I remind you that New York City is just that, a major city. An urban center. NYC isn't the suburbs. Like ALL major cities, it populated by wealthy/poor/young professional/immigrants. Why does surprise you? Ever been to London? Tokyo? Paris? San Francisco? This isn't the 50s when middle-class families lived in the city.

And like all other major cities, most middle/upper-middle class families live in the suburbs, only the very wealthy ones live in Manhattan. NY happens to have the wealthiest suburbs in the US and lots and lots of middle-class suburbs. The metro also happens to have the wealthiest city core in the US, perhaps the world. NY has never masqueraded as middle-America town, so if that's what you want....wrong city. You'll be happier in Birmingham.

New York is much safer, wealthier and more gentrified than it was when the last wave of native NYers supposedly fleed to Alabama or South Carolina or wherever.

Hopefully the trend continues.
Middle classed families live all over the City. What are you smoking? New York City = all five boroughs, and they all aren't full of wealthy people. Also, I lived in Manhattan - west side, midtown - and I wasn't "wealthy". A more white, wealthy city is what you're hoping for. It isn't going to happen. There are some places that will never be gentrified. Or gentrify at your own risk. Robbers love them some ignorant, less than street smart yuppies. Or putting a luxury condo next to PJs..heh heh. New York is safer (to a degree) because of aggressive policing, not because "all the Natives moved out"....again, there are some places, even in good ol' Manhattan, that will never be safe unless there is a police unit right there.
 
Old 01-03-2010, 09:21 PM
 
83 posts, read 290,788 times
Reputation: 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYCAnalyst View Post
If someone doesn't like living far away from their job, they should either

  • Get another job closer to where they live, or
  • Get a job that pays more so they can afford the rent in the pricier neighborhoods.
Riiight, only in your fantasy world is it that easy, especially in this recession that statement sounds ridiculous. There's people with tons of degree's and experience that cant find jobs....and the people that do have jobs cant just switch them to whatever's more convienient
 
Old 01-03-2010, 09:26 PM
 
784 posts, read 1,762,820 times
Reputation: 427
Quote:
Originally Posted by DewDrop149 View Post
Riiight, only in your fantasy world is it that easy, especially in this recession that statement sounds ridiculous. There's people with tons of degree's and experience that cant find jobs....and the people that do have jobs cant just switch them to whatever's more convient
I never said it was easy. But it is not impossible.

It is easier if you have tangible skills and can show an employer that you can add value.
 
Old 01-03-2010, 09:30 PM
 
7 posts, read 23,245 times
Reputation: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by riaelise View Post
Middle classed families live all over the City. What are you smoking? New York City = all five boroughs, and they all aren't full of wealthy people. Also, I lived in Manhattan - west side, midtown - and I wasn't "wealthy". A more white, wealthy city is what you're hoping for. It isn't going to happen. There are some places that will never be gentrified. Or gentrify at your own risk. Robbers love them some ignorant, less than street smart yuppies. Or putting a luxury condo next to PJs..heh heh. New York is safer (to a degree) because of aggressive policing, not because "all the Natives moved out"....again, there are some places, even in good ol' Manhattan, that will never be safe unless there is a police unit right there.
Well, they are technically middle class, but to "woozle" they're supposedly poor immigrants. Everyone is an immigrant.

Queens is a solidly middle class borough for instance. And I don't care what it is, the crime in NYC is down and NYC is a much more pleasant city than it was 20 years ago. The loss of NYC natives has brought nothing negative that I can think of.

There is no such thing as a completely white wealthy city, (well, besides Monaco) and I don't expect the same for NY or would never ever want that. The large immigrant base is what keeps NYC interesting, IMO. I love NYC for its large immigrant base...it's what makes NYC NYC.
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