How much has NYC changed in the last 30 years for raising a family? (New York: apartment, rent)
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I'm at that age where raising a family has become a common conversation topic, and from what I've heard in real life conversations and what I've read in this forum and the City-vs-City forum is that it's not advisable to try to raise a family in New York City unless you're making well into the six figures.
I understand that the cost of living in New York is very high, but there's a huge disconnect between these kinds of statements and my own personal experience. I grew up in New York (Queens, about 2 blocks from the 7 train) in the late 1970s and 80s, in a family of five with a household income of around $32k a year (which I think would be around $70k - $80k a year in today's dollars).
We were by no means wealthy and actually neither were any of my neighborhood friends. My friends and I all had fairly enriching childhoods (joining the Boy Scouts, playing little league, etc), went to public schools and ended up at good-to-great colleges like Columbia, NYU, UPenn, UMass, Cooper Union, etc... all while our parents were buying their own homes and saving up for retirement. So now, when people say that you have to be rich to live in New York, I find myself taken aback.
Have things really changed so much that these kinds of experiences are no longer an option for families? If so, then what is it that's different about today's New York?
No they haven't. But the idea of making the sort of sacrifices that your family made is inconceivable to most people. Whenever you see posts here about how much is "enough" money to live in the "city," everyone seems to think police, fire, teachers, other civil servants and union workers no longer live in the city, or scrape by just above poverty. Yes, it is true, you cannot live in Douglaston in a four bedroom house with three kids and a pool, with two cars, send your kids to private school, save money for private college, save for retirement, and go to Disney World once a year on $80,000 per year. You can live, as millions do, a full life in a safe neighborhood in a house or apartment that you wished was a bit larger and nicer, just as the guy down the block wishes about his larger and nicer house.
It's all about housing costs. Can you house a family of five in Queens two blocks from the 7 Train for $2,000 a month? No way.
I know people who play $1,300 for a one bedroom in Woodside or Sunnyside close to the train.
It's a little cheaper when you rent in smaller buildings and private houses. The 4BR, 2BA one family house on my parents' block is currently being rented out for $2300 a month. I think they also have another relative in the semi-separate basement to help defray the cost, so out of pocket they're probably paying $1900 or $2000.
Edit: I also just saw these ads on Craigslist, don't know exactly where the first one is, but I think the second one is about 3 blocks from the 69th street 7train station and I think both sound suitable for a family of five:
MOD CUT
Last edited by Viralmd; 01-12-2010 at 02:38 PM..
Reason: NO links to specific properties.
No they haven't. But the idea of making the sort of sacrifices that your family made is inconceivable to most people. Whenever you see posts here about how much is "enough" money to live in the "city," everyone seems to think police, fire, teachers, other civil servants and union workers no longer live in the city, or scrape by just above poverty. Yes, it is true, you cannot live in Douglaston in a four bedroom house with three kids and a pool, with two cars, send your kids to private school, save money for private college, save for retirement, and go to Disney World once a year on $80,000 per year. You can live, as millions do, a full life in a safe neighborhood in a house or apartment that you wished was a bit larger and nicer, just as the guy down the block wishes about his larger and nicer house.
Wow, sounds just like my family. IMO, it's tougher to live in NYC now than it was in the 70's - 80s if you don't have high income. The cost of living (esp. housing & health benefits) are much higher now, leaving you with lower discretionary income. Also, a lot of the freebies that you described seem to have gone with the wind. I can't count on one hand the number of kids I know enrolled in Girl or Boy Scouts. There are no more afterschool centers, the only little league I've heard of is the one that won some pennant. Back in the day you could have you kid entertained for virtually nothing, and they really got something from it. I'm an example -- I was a Brownie, Girl Scout, attended the afterschool center, vacation day camp and was in the little league. Think about the cost of equivalent activities today. There's no way my parents could afford it.
No they haven't. But the idea of making the sort of sacrifices that your family made is inconceivable to most people. Whenever you see posts here about how much is "enough" money to live in the "city," everyone seems to think police, fire, teachers, other civil servants and union workers no longer live in the city, or scrape by just above poverty. Yes, it is true, you cannot live in Douglaston in a four bedroom house with three kids and a pool, with two cars, send your kids to private school, save money for private college, save for retirement, and go to Disney World once a year on $80,000 per year. You can live, as millions do, a full life in a safe neighborhood in a house or apartment that you wished was a bit larger and nicer, just as the guy down the block wishes about his larger and nicer house.
Couldn't have said it better !
The biggest change has been people's attitudes, expectations and sense of entitlement more than the actual cost of living in the city.
Ya,some of the neighborhoods that were "affordable" in the 70's or 80's really are no longer affordable.... places like Williamsburg and Park Slope and parts of Queens being prime examples.But there are lots of neighborhoods left throughout the city where people manage to raise families with a lot less than 6 figures. It's a struggle,just like it was for the op's parents and they don't have SUV's,designer clothes,HD TV in every room,gym memberships,an IPhone and a computer for everyone in the family,new kitchens and baths every 3 years with granite counter tops and top of the line appliances,etc,etc.But a lot of people do it.....with no whining at all.
I laugh to myself every day when I leave my apartment and see all the Escalades,BMW's and other expensive cars parked outside of my building....in The Bronx for god's sake!!! When I was growing up nobody had a car.
The biggest change is that everyone now thinks they deserve and can't live without all the crap they see on TV.
Bluedog2, your points about the new consumerism are definitely key. People today do seem to have a sense of entitlement and will spend, spend, spend to keep up with trends. We really don't need these things to be happy but people are so very influenced by the media. It's a shame.
I think it really has changed in the city and even on LI and northern NJ. Gone are the days were dad worked, mom stayed home, or even 2 working people like teachers are able to afford a home.
The neighborhood my parents bought thier house in 30 years ago for $30k, now these houses are worth $500k and up. These are not extravagant homes either, its the location to the trains, parkways and being only 25 miles from Manhattan is what makes this neighborhood so expensive.
Back then, families starting out were able to afford a house as a newly married couple. Nowadays, I don't know anyone my age who has a house unless thier parents gave them a house or got a nice contribution of cash from parents/in-laws.
Its really a shame that people in late 20's/early 30's who aren't doctors/lawyers/finance people cannot afford to stay in the area they were raised in.
Wow, sounds just like my family. IMO, it's tougher to live in NYC now than it was in the 70's - 80s if you don't have high income. The cost of living (esp. housing & health benefits) are much higher now, leaving you with lower discretionary income. Also, a lot of the freebies that you described seem to have gone with the wind. I can't count on one hand the number of kids I know enrolled in Girl or Boy Scouts. There are no more afterschool centers, the only little league I've heard of is the one that won some pennant. Back in the day you could have you kid entertained for virtually nothing, and they really got something from it. I'm an example -- I was a Brownie, Girl Scout, attended the afterschool center, vacation day camp and was in the little league. Think about the cost of equivalent activities today. There's no way my parents could afford it.
My brother (cop) and SIL (teacher who hasn't worked since having kids) have 3 girls. All play soccer. 2 play softball, are brownies and go for golf lessons (free) and they still manage to feed and clothe their kids. People are definitely still doing all of these things. One thing that I know is different is that when we were kids there was a parent at home. That was helpful because it was in a way easier for our parents to let us roam around a little. Because there was always someone watching. If you were out and did something stupid your mother knew about it before you got home. And they didn't have to make phone calls to see if it was ok or safe at so and so's house because so and so's Mom was also home. Watching.
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