canarsie living (Boston, Lee, Benson: apartment, foreclosure, for rent)

[LISALEE]

does anyone know how canarsie is doing these days . i have not been there in a while i used to live in apartment on 79 street and glenwood rd . how is this area holding up . and was any thing torn down in canarsie.

[whatsleftofbrooklyn]

Originally Posted by LISALEE

does anyone know how canarsie is doing these days . i have not been there in a while i used to live in apartment on 79 street and glenwood rd . how is this area holding up . and was any thing torn down in canarsie.

I dont know your age, but Canarsie is all black, mainly carribean folk. If your in your 30's or 40's you know how different it was then.

[Chi2NYC?]

there's a really good book by jonathan rieder (sic) on the neighborhood. i think it's simply called _canarsie_. it was written around the 1980s, when the neighborhood was transitioning. the book is about how the heretofore separate jewish and italian population in the area came together to oppose the influx of african-americans. it's a good book, but it doesn't flatter the neighborhood's old residents.

edit:

Amazon.com: Canarsie: The Jews and Italians of Brooklyn Against Liberalism: Books: Jonathan Rieder

[enjft]

I live on 78th and Farragut and I can tell you that Canarsie is not how it used to be 10 yrs ago. Tons of traffic and overpopulated households. U can tell most homes are going through foreclosure.

[Glitterific]

Houses are being sold and turned into mini-condos or whatever they are called.

White flight definitely changed the look of this area, but there are still great homes with nice cars and clean yards. Like south of flatlands ave and to the right of rockaway parkway.

[Jackson99]

In today's paper Canarsie was listed as being one of the highest in noise complaints. Hey, at least they think it's annoying and call 311 to complain....

[scatman]

Many have blamed white flight on much of the liberal policies aimed at intergrating neighborhoods. OK, some of those policies may have gone a bit over the top.

But I wonder if those "hard-working class" residents of those neighborhoods would have accepted policies, even in a much moderated and modified form, of change in their neighborhoods. I tend to think not!

If we can bash limosine liberals on one extreme, then we can also hold residents of those neighborhoods accountable on the other extreme for the complete lack of ability to compromise. (See Canarsie, Bensonhurst, Boston).

[Jackson99]

Originally Posted by scatman

Many have blamed white flight on much of the liberal policies aimed at intergrating neighborhoods. OK, some of those policies may have gone a bit over the top.

But I wonder if those "hard-working class" residents of those neighborhoods would have accepted policies, even in a much moderated and modified form, of change in their neighborhoods. I tend to think not!

If we can bash limosine liberals on one extreme, then we can also hold residents of those neighborhoods accountable on the other extreme for the complete lack of ability to compromise. (See Canarsie, Bensonhurst, Boston).

I'm not sure I like the sound of neighborhoods being "accountable for compromise..." It was the intergration policies of NYC politics that destroyed that neighborhood. Most of the jews who lived in canarsie grew up in Brownsville. That went to pot, and they moved to Canarsie and shared with the Italians, who jealously guarded against outsiders. So I guess you're right that the residents would NOT accept new integrational policies because they in fact didn't. Fierce political fighting in late 70's early 80's. Well, the City won out... and the Jews and Italians fled to the 'burbs. Now we have what we have... mostly afro-carribbean. I think middle class blacks who moved in have found the schools are terrible and the neighborhood isn't as safe as it looks, and wind up trying to cash out before they find themselves stuck. It really is a bizarre neighborhood. It LOOKS like suburbia, but it feels very different.

[scatman]

Originally Posted by Jackson99

I'm not sure I like the sound of neighborhoods being "accountable for compromise..." It was the intergration policies of NYC politics that destroyed that neighborhood. Most of the jews who lived in canarsie grew up in Brownsville. That went to pot, and they moved to Canarsie and shared with the Italians, who jealously guarded against outsiders. So I guess you're right that the residents would NOT accept new integrational policies because they in fact didn't. Fierce political fighting in late 70's early 80's. Well, the City won out... and the Jews and Italians fled to the 'burbs. Now we have what we have... mostly afro-carribbean. I think middle class blacks who moved in have found the schools are terrible and the neighborhood isn't as safe as it looks, and wind up trying to cash out before they find themselves stuck. It really is a bizarre neighborhood. It LOOKS like suburbia, but it feels very different.

The fact of the matter is this....exclusion is illegal, in addition to immoral. People in nabes like Canarsie, Bensonhurst and nabes in Boston wanted to keep their little places to themselves. Sorry, but in changing times, it's just not happening! The inability to accept change put an "Archie Bunker stigma" on those residents. Had they been amenable to some type of change, things may have been better for all.

[Jackson99]

Originally Posted by scatman

The fact of the matter is this....exclusion is illegal, in addition to immoral. People in nabes like Canarsie, Bensonhurst and nabes in Boston wanted to keep their little places to themselves. Sorry, but in changing times, it's just not happening! The inability to accept change put an "Archie Bunker stigma" on those residents. Had they been amenable to some type of change, things may have been better for all.

I think the older residents of Canarsie were amenable to change when they accepted and encouraged "change" in Brownsville. After that, they were tired of agressive change and saw it as a kind of Robin Hood-Like racial agressiveness and wealth redistribution; but it wasn't attempted on the wealthy neighborhoods-- they had lawyers and politicans in pocket. No, it was the working class that was easy to lean on. They just moved away one at a time, and then the trickle became a flood of out-bound emigration.

I agree it's immoral to not rent or sell to a person because of the color of their skin. But Canarsie was a case of using public policy to force people to sell their homes because of skin color. Ultimately, it came down to good for Black folks and bad for Whites in the short run. Black "advocates" thought they had won a victory for moving into a middle class neighborhood and kicking out all the Archie Bunkers. (Brilliant name, BTW) But when they found that the schools were bad, their neighbors still liked to fight on their front lawns, that their cousins liked the idea of "running a corner" when they got out of prison, well.... it comes down to the idea that the Middle Class is not just an affordable mortgage payment, and you can't socially engineer a neighborhood from a bureaucratic office or, maybe worse, from a graduate school classroom. The 69 precinct is awash with low-level crime and quality of life complaints. Mortgage forclosures and for rent signs litter the lawns. It's symptomatic of a neighborhood without neighbors. That's why I'm not comfortable with the idea that somehow "a neighborhood" is responsible for compromise. There are better ways of making cities work.