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I wasn't specifically talking about you. I just think when people inquire about neighborhoods they're not at all familiar with on here it's only right to tell them the complete truth. I don't like when people disparage decent or improving areas areas either but the OP sounded like s/he was anticipating some kind of Bronx version of Williamsburg, Brooklyn that just doesn't exist.
IMO, Mott Haven is not a viable neighborhood to move to from outside the city unless you're from an equivalent neighborhood elsewhere. There's a reason for the relatively cheap rents - it's not a very desirable place to live. I don't put the other neighborhoods you named in the same boat as Mott Haven, especially not Melrose, because the poverty and blight in M.H. is considerably more noticable. Walk 138th from 3rd to Cypress or up Willis from 135th to 149th. How is that substantial improvement?
Quote:
Originally Posted by SobroGuy
Pookie...I do not believe my post was in anyway sugar coated or filled with real-estate-ese. If someone asked you for a neighborhood to live in for $900-$1,000 a month that was close to Manhattan, how can you NOT have SoBro or Mott Haven/Melrose/Woodstock/Port Morris/Concourse etc as viable options?
I stand by my assessment, however I also stat
ed it is my neighborhood and I am partial to it, and it does meet her requirements in a way that 95% of neighborhoods in NYC cannot. I also stated it is best for her to find anywhere to live temporarily and explore these neighborhoods herself, as this is the only way to know how it feels TO YOU. Based on her requirements, SoBro should be considered, and it IS improving substantially.
Why does everything have to be the next Williamsburg? The overuse of that example is starting to bother me. Also people talk about Williamsburg like it was this really horrible crime ridden place, it was more than anything just a regular urban ethnic working class neighborhood. I actually think in some part what happened to Williamsburg is something the city should avoid not look to replicate. It's cool the area changed, it happens, but the sort of radical displacement that occurred over there is not this great thing some people make it out to be, also part of me thinks Williamsburg is gonna crash something ugly one of these days. I still think what happened over there is a lot of lights and mirrors if you ask me...but anyway back to the Bronx...
South Bronx is the next South Bronx. Personally I think it is getting better but still has a ways to go in general, lots of pretty rough parts still...
Last edited by NooYowkur81; 03-04-2010 at 06:49 PM..
Why does everything have to be the next Williamsburg? The overuse of that example is starting to bother me. Also people talk about Williamsburg like it was this really horrible crime ridden place, it was more than anything just a regular urban ethnic working class neighborhood.
South Bronx is the next South Bronx. Personally I think it is getting better but still has a ways to go in general, lots of pretty rough parts still...
That, and I don't really think it's such a great place anyway.. the fact that people are hoping that neighborhoods will aspire to be Williamsburg is a little deflating. Neighborhoods need their own identity... aspire to make it a positive one... not to be a different neighborhood.
Whoa people, I appreciate the discussion, but we've gotten way off track. No where in my posts here have I ever said anything about Williamsburg. Keep in mind that I am not new to NYC, or Williamsburg for that matter, which I did not think was "all that," as they say. I lived in NYC for about thirteen years, moved to Madison fairly recently, and am now considering returning. I lived in the South Bronx some years back, in Hunts Point, which was disastrous for me. I lasted two weeks. In my original post and beyond, my goal was, and still is, to figure out where in NYC or any of the surrounding boroughs would be a good place to live. Period. Thanks again, everyone, but please chill, ok? Peace.
Whoa people, I appreciate the discussion, but we've gotten way off track. No where in my posts here have I ever said anything about Williamsburg. Keep in mind that I am not new to NYC, or Williamsburg for that matter, which I did not think was "all that," as they say. I lived in NYC for about thirteen years, moved to Madison fairly recently, and am now considering returning. I lived in the South Bronx some years back, in Hunts Point, which was disastrous for me. I lasted two weeks. In my original post and beyond, my goal was, and still is, to figure out where in NYC or any of the surrounding boroughs would be a good place to live. Period. Thanks again, everyone, but please chill, ok? Peace.
the bronx in general is a heated topic of conversation on this forum....but lets continue with the original topic at hand for the sake of the OP.
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Why does everything have to be the next Williamsburg? The overuse of that example is starting to bother me. Also people talk about Williamsburg like it was this really horrible crime ridden place, it was more than anything just a regular urban ethnic working class neighborhood. I actually think in some part what happened to Williamsburg is something the city should avoid not look to replicate. It's cool the area changed, it happens, but the sort of radical displacement that occurred over there is not this great thing some people make it out to be, also part of me thinks Williamsburg is gonna crash something ugly one of these days. I still think what happened over there is a lot of lights and mirrors if you ask me...but anyway back to the Bronx...
South Bronx is the next South Bronx. Personally I think it is getting better but still has a ways to go in general, lots of pretty rough parts still...
Read what the OP said:
Especially in terms of affordability, safety, and culture (i.e. artistic venues, diversity, atmosphere/vibe)? What little I've heard and read of SoBro seems to indicate that it has become an enclave or community for visual artists or economic "refugees" from SoHo or the downtown area. What about venues for poets and musicians? Cafes, lounges, restaurants, bookstore cafes, etc.? Where exactly is SoBro? So many questions.
It reads like s/he was envisioning the South Bronx as some kind of bohemian place. Thats all I meant.
Why does everything have to be the next Williamsburg? The overuse of that example is starting to bother me. Also people talk about Williamsburg like it was this really horrible crime ridden place, it was more than anything just a regular urban ethnic working class neighborhood. I actually think in some part what happened to Williamsburg is something the city should avoid not look to replicate. It's cool the area changed, it happens, but the sort of radical displacement that occurred over there is not this great thing some people make it out to be, also part of me thinks Williamsburg is gonna crash something ugly one of these days. I still think what happened over there is a lot of lights and mirrors if you ask me...but anyway back to the Bronx...
South Bronx is the next South Bronx. Personally I think it is getting better but still has a ways to go in general, lots of pretty rough parts still...
Eh, I'm good friends with two families who have lived in Williamsburg for well over twenty years and who raised their children there. They were one of the few families to actually buy their place when it seemed absolutely ridiculous to do so. Their stories about the Williamsburg (and notably only a few blocks away from the Bedford L) of the past are not of a regular urban ethnic working class neighborhood unless you consider that to consist of dimly lit and dirty streets, drug dealers on the corners, groups of threatening youth trying to prove some useless point, and tales of how your cousin/aunt/etc were mugged or jumped.
Of course, maybe the neighborhood while it was still in the middle of a transition, where the worst were kicked out and the decent folk could afford to stay, is the ideal Williamsburg that should have been preserved and this is possibly something that parts of the South Bronx can have. There are signs of this happening though. There's a cool food co-op that's pretty recent, and there are a few interesting bars here and there catering to a fairly artistic crowd. Really though, it doesn't seem like so much of a community of artists as it is a convenient place for those who want decent proximity to other parts of the city and a decent sized space to create things that is affordable enough to let you concentrate on your craft. Maybe some critical mass could be reached at some point where it becomes worthwhile. It's a possibility, but not a particularly sure one. You might want to consider Bushwick instead (which REALLY is getting the outflux from Williamsburg).
Eh, I'm good friends with two families who have lived in Williamsburg for well over twenty years and who raised their children there. They were one of the few families to actually buy their place when it seemed absolutely ridiculous to do so. Their stories about the Williamsburg (and notably only a few blocks away from the Bedford L) of the past are not of a regular urban ethnic working class neighborhood unless you consider that to consist of dimly lit and dirty streets, drug dealers on the corners, groups of threatening youth trying to prove some useless point, and tales of how your cousin/aunt/etc were mugged or jumped.
Of course, maybe the neighborhood while it was still in the middle of a transition, where the worst were kicked out and the decent folk could afford to stay, is the ideal Williamsburg that should have been preserved and this is possibly something that parts of the South Bronx can have. There are signs of this happening though. There's a cool food co-op that's pretty recent, and there are a few interesting bars here and there catering to a fairly artistic crowd. Really though, it doesn't seem like so much of a community of artists as it is a convenient place for those who want decent proximity to other parts of the city and a decent sized space to create things that is affordable enough to let you concentrate on your craft. Maybe some critical mass could be reached at some point where it becomes worthwhile. It's a possibility, but not a particularly sure one. You might want to consider Bushwick instead (which REALLY is getting the outflux from Williamsburg).
Thank you, but as I said before, I am really not interested in Williamsburg or the Williamsburg outflux. At the risk of opening up another can of worms (who knew?), many of the "hipsters" who relocated to Harlem when I was living there made the atmosphere around Edgecombe and 145th Street very tense and edgy, imo. Things got better in time, but the transition was tense for most people. What I may be looking for is a neighborhood that is relatively safe and affordable on an income of 45 to 48 K and that is either an enclave for poets, writers, musicians, etc. or at least welcoming to those of us who see our creativity as central to our lives. If, as one poster has said, this does not exist, the second best choice would be to live within in reasonable commuting distance of the West Village and the Bowery, where there are many venues.
I really believe on that salary, as a single person, you should consider SoBro. It has a growing artist community, local artist exhibits and establishments, in your budget, and excelltn proximity to Manhattan. It still has alot of the urban issues, however it is getting better, however it is not the next anything..it is staying as it is, but getting better.
I really believe on that salary, as a single person, you should consider SoBro. It has a growing artist community, local artist exhibits and establishments, in your budget, and excelltn proximity to Manhattan. It still has alot of the urban issues, however it is getting better, however it is not the next anything..it is staying as it is, but getting better.
Hey SobroGuy, SoBro is definitely on my list of neighborhoods to explore. You've been a great help.
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